VpointVick wrote on 02/21/17 at 2:35pm:


There's your problem. 

Fairly hardcore trail runner here (I run MTB trails as often as I am able can, usually 2-3x/wk).  Trail running is a passion and I appreciate very much that bikers are willing to share trails with me, and believe that runners must be especially mindful and strive to be "good guests" when using the trails that are built and maintained by riders.  Supporting THTB by participating in work days (regrettably I have not done this yet) or contributions (which I am able to do) is also a great way for runners to help out. 

Along those lines, I have a different view on the best trail direction when running.  I'm convinced that it is far safer for a runner to go in the same direction as the bikes, IF RUNNER IS NOT WEARING HEADPHONES.  To explain (full disclosure, I'm a safety engineer so I geek out and ponder this a lot):

1.  I almost certainly will hear a biker long before a rider can see me.  I hear you coming when you are way back. Both riders and runners are typically focusing more on trail right in front of them (roots, rocks, etc.), and not always looking very far down trail, so there is not much advantage in the line of sight IMO.  Also, due to twisty trails and especially when trees are leafed out, line of sight is pretty limited anyway.  

2.  Closing speed.  I'd guess a typical biker averages 12-14 mph, I average 6-7 mph (I usually get around Sherman Main is less than an hour, and I'm kind of an old fart).  So if we are approaching head on, we are closing at 20 mph+, but in same direction we are only closing at 6-7 mph.  So going in same direction allows 3 times more reaction time to react/get off trail once rider comes into "detection range".  Anectodally, last weekend I was at North Meck, and got bored after first two laps and decided to reverse direction for the 3rd loop, and it reinforced to me how much less reaction time there is when a rider and I came across each other in opposite directions.

3.  Reducing passing encounters.  Running against rider traffic will cause about 3 times as many passing encounters than when both are moving in same direction.   I've been out at Sherman where the parking lot is pretty full, and I only get passed by a couple of riders.  If I were going in the other direction, I'd see every rider in the parking lot at least once.   Running same direction as riders improves safety and the experience for both.

In the past few years, I don't think I've ever been surprised by a rider coming up behind me undetected - I'm always able to notice the biker and get off the trail to allow a safe pass.  

Of course all of this goes out the window if the runner is wearing headphones - that makes it very unsafe indeed and if a runner insists on wearing them then I guess opposite is better.  In my opinion runners should never wear headphones on a trail.  For walkers/hikers, opposite direction is probably better because the closing rate and number of encounters doesn't matter as much, since they are doing 2-3.5 mph.

Anyway, thanks for letting me share my opinion, and I'll see you on the trails!

Here.. I got a sign for you;

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Translation; Mountain bikers yield to slower trail users.

IntheBush wrote on 02/21/17 at 6:48pm:

I don't trust a a sign with incorrect spelling 

Over the last year or so I've just developed the opinion that a lot of the trail etiquette problems break down into to the basic fact that there are more and more people who just aren't very courteous.  That includes walkers, runners and bikers.  I get that new riders may not understand some rules that experienced people find second nature, but many people I encounter just don't seem to care if they are in your way, or slow you down, or go the wrong direction, etc.  Last summer I stopped to tell a family riding at Beatty that they were going the wrong way.  Three times!  Every time I passed them I politely told them and they obviously didn't care.  I've seen riders get pissed off at someone because they slowed them down and probably cost them 3 seconds on a Strava time.  I got in to this sport for exercise and fun and try to keep it that way.  Realizing that other people are out for the same reasons is something a bunch of people have forgotten.

OoHoO wrote on 02/21/17 at 8:22pm:


))

That's funny. I didn't notice. I think the message is more important than the spelling.

This is something we all deal with. It isn't going to change.

Sometimes you just gotta be the bigger guy. The trail expert. And you don't run over the little people.

IntheBush wrote on 02/21/17 at 10:21pm:




Especially when there are a lot of vehicles in the parking lot:  I just assume I'm going to encounter a lot of people not familiar w/trail etiquette.  More signage may help speed up education and would be a good thing.  But you're always going to have a lot of casual runners/hikers/bikers on the really nice weekend days who don't do it often enough to take it seriously or retain the knowledge.  On those days, I'm ready to stop and yield, if need be, and just focus on enjoying the commune with nature with no thought of Strava times.  And usually throw in a "Thank you" and compliment their dog when we pass. 

IntheBush wrote on 02/21/17 at 10:26pm:

As I said in the OP, I'm one of those people.
It does help some, but if they've got earbuds in and too loud they won't hear anything.

msedly wrote on 02/22/17 at 1:09am:

I didn't post here to vent or in hopes of reaching the problem crowd, I'm hoping to reach someone who can make some signs happen out there to make a big dent in the problem. 

I'm rooting for the place to succeed, and understand that success means a bunch of people out there on weekends but they need to understand that if they don't try and manage all of those people they're going to have more and more people like you who won't go there on weekends because it's unpleasant. If hanging some signs can make an impact on that doesn't it make sense to do that?

VpointVick wrote on 02/22/17 at 12:41pm:


Just playing devils advocate here... The USNWC makes more money off the oblivious trail user who goes out there a couple times a year and buys a day pass, than they do off someone like me who buys the annual parking pass and goes out there ~50x per year to use the trails. 

I want the place to be successful too, because that means more trails. But lets be honest, while the mountain bike community might be some of their most frequent guests. We don't exactly contribute a huge amount to the financial success of the USNWC. 

Sometimes you have to take the good with the bad. In the case of the USNWC, the good far outweighs the bad. If you want to go somewhere out in nature, where you don't have to deal with trail newbs, there are places for that. 

If you want to go somewhere you can shred singletrack, ride ziplines, do ropes courses, climb rock walls, whitewater raft, then grab some good food, and enjoy some beers while watching a free live music performance... USNWC.

You mean to tell me in all these comments about this topic not one mention about Thread trail has been made?  Unnnnnnnbelievable.  Riding at WWC on a sunny Saturday in February is like skiing at Sugar on a sunny Saturday in February.  You're not going to get anywhere fast.  Gotta just accept the newbs clad in denim and Starter jackets.   

I used to have a legit clown horn on my bike, that was the best for alerting other trail users i was coming.  Now i have a speaker mounted on the handle bar playing hip-hop or rock which serves a similar purpose.  There's gonna be people that are oblivious or just plain dicks, be it at WWC or sitting in rush hour traffic on I77 or waiting in line for a beer at ..uggghhhh.. Sycamore.. is what it is.  Pretty much everyone i know with the club is the 'bigger man' type so if we can deal with I77 at 5:30 on a weekday or Sycamore at 3 on a Saturday, pretty sure we can deal with some jackwagon riding a mongoose wearing sandals and hacking up a lung in the middle of Lake Loop.