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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) The Trailblazers need your help!! (Read 11154 times)
sCvHeaVens
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Re: The Trailblazers need your help!!
Reply #40 - 04/26/17 at 1:02pm
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DG wrote on 04/26/17 at 2:04am:


I think TT is a great idea, and  think about general public, not only enthusiast. These are already members. You want to get families and so on. So why not organize an easy circuit just for the fun of it. Could be the mc Alpine park, not at all  difficult but lot of space and easy to get to for everyone in town. There is a!So the space to have shops booth or club tent. If you need I know one of the managers at parks and recs and I can put you in touch with him.



Are you talking about crit as in road?  If so I don't know if that's a good idea, no better way to get the mindset of biking isn't for you than to do a crit with a bunch of inexperienced riders.  I'm an OK rider and the idea of doing a road crit scares the crap out of me (not just because other riders, I don't trust myself!).   

I also think you'll find that appealing to general public will have a lot less return for membership.  Think of how many people ride a bike or have a bike in your neighborhood, or even rent bikes at wwc... now how many of them would care to be a member of a bike club?  Now I'm not saying there shouldn't be some appeal to these people as I am all for getting new people into the sport, but IMO there is a ton more people who look at it as "bike riding" instead of a "sport".

Now think about all the enthusiasts we have in CLT.  Not saying it needs to be a TT around all the black diamonds; but it does need to appeal more to a targeted audience.  In this case the targeted audience would be bikers who are engaged enough in it to consider joining a club.  There are > 5000 members of this forum but it sounds like less than 10% are members of the actual club.   

Full disclosure, I for one am not an official member, and I know most of my friends that are on these forums are not (I think the only people I know that are official members are the awesome peeps who put on the Tuesday rides), and I think that comes down to the fact I'm still fairly new to the sport and when I was told about this majestic place the answer I got when asking are you member ("no") and what's the benefit of being a member, I didn't hear something along the lines of, "they have awesome weekly TT, or skill clinics, etc, that you can attend if you're a member".  I get that there are shop discounts and stuff but I am a pretty simple person, I just want to ride my bike, meet people, attend events, and something like a TT would be something to push me to become official (especially considering the costs of the races/events around here).  I'm 100% the guy who will spend $100+ on cycling shoes or $30-40 to ride a bike event but won't spend over $10 for a meal after bike event.

As far as the jersey, I picked one up the other day and love the colors (IMO the red is darker on the picture than real life).  Look at one in person before you decide it's not for you.  I am also not the guy to buy expensive jerseys; IMO the jersey is priced very well considering its for a good cause (if any money is even made on the jersey)

Also - Mark time to put your jersey collection where your mouth is...  Grin
  
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Re: The Trailblazers need your help!!
Reply #41 - 04/26/17 at 1:19pm
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sCvHeaVens wrote on 04/26/17 at 1:02pm:



Are you talking about crit as in road?  If so I don't know if that's a good idea, no better way to get the mindset of biking isn't for you than to do a crit with a bunch of inexperienced riders.  I'm an OK rider and the idea of doing a road crit scares the crap out of me (not just because other riders, I don't trust myself!).  

I also think you'll find that appealing to general public will have a lot less return for membership.  Think of how many people ride a bike or have a bike in your neighborhood, or even rent bikes at wwc... now how many of them would care to be a member of a bike club?  Now I'm not saying there shouldn't be some appeal to these people as I am all for getting new people into the sport, but IMO there is a ton more people who look at it as "bike riding" instead of a "sport".

Now think about all the enthusiasts we have in CLT.  Not saying it needs to be a TT around all the black diamonds; but it does need to appeal more to a targeted audience.  In this case the targeted audience would be bikers who are engaged enough in it to consider joining a club.  There are > 5000 members of this forum but it sounds like less than 10% are members of the actual club.  

Full disclosure, I for one am not an official member, and I know most of my friends that are on these forums are not (I think the only people I know that are official members are the awesome peeps who put on the Tuesday rides), and I think that comes down to the fact I'm still fairly new to the sport and when I was told about this majestic place the answer I got when asking are you member ("no") and what's the benefit of being a member, I didn't hear something along the lines of, "they have awesome weekly TT, or skill clinics, etc, that you can attend if you're a member".  I get that there are shop discounts and stuff but I am a pretty simple person, I just want to ride my bike, meet people, attend events, and something like a TT would be something to push me to become official (especially considering the costs of the races/events around here).  I'm 100% the guy who will spend $100+ on cycling shoes or $30-40 to ride a bike event but won't spend over $10 for a meal after bike event.

As far as the jersey, I picked one up the other day and love the colors (IMO the red is darker on the picture than real life).  Look at one in person before you decide it's not for you.  I am also not the guy to buy expensive jerseys; IMO the jersey is priced very well considering its for a good cause (if any money is even made on the jersey)

Also - Mark time to put your jersey collection where your mouth is...  Grin


The Targeted Audience is already a member, or at least a follower. So let me ask you why you and your friends do not become IMBA and Trailblazer members? Your reply could be interesting to understand how to increase the membership within the targeted community. For example I am a member but I do not go on rides etc. but i wanted to give my share to the peeps who work to keep the trails open. I hope is enough, but i cannot give time since i am already active in some other associations. So is there a message, more than anything else, that would make you become a member? 
Maybe the Trailblazer should just follow NPR fundraising steps, showing what they do for all the bikers and asking for a pledge.
  
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Re: The Trailblazers need your help!!
Reply #42 - 04/26/17 at 1:22pm
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sCvHeaVens wrote on 04/26/17 at 1:02pm:



As far as the jersey, I picked one up the other day and love the colors (IMO the red is darker on the picture than real life).  Look at one in person before you decide it's not for you.  I am also not the guy to buy expensive jerseys; IMO the jersey is priced very well considering its for a good cause (if any money is even made on the jersey)

Also - Mark time to put your jersey collection where your mouth is...  Grin


Unfortunately in today's merchandising marketing the first step is to make things appealing for the online user, and this jersey is not appealing to me!! That's it!

  
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Re: The Trailblazers need your help!!
Reply #43 - 04/26/17 at 8:02pm
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DG wrote on 04/26/17 at 1:19pm:


The Targeted Audience is already a member, or at least a follower. So let me ask you why you and your friends do not become IMBA and Trailblazer members? Your reply could be interesting to understand how to increase the membership within the targeted community. For example I am a member but I do not go on rides etc. but i wanted to give my share to the peeps who work to keep the trails open. I hope is enough, but i cannot give time since i am already active in some other associations. So is there a message, more than anything else, that would make you become a member? 
Maybe the Trailblazer should just follow NPR fundraising steps, showing what they do for all the bikers and asking for a pledge.




Sure I'll share some thought; and I think a lot of people probably think similar but don't want to get flamed for speaking out.  I have only been riding bikes for a little over 2 years so a lot of it may just be me being uneducated about the club part of the forum so please educate me if I'm missing something. 

Let me preface this by saying I support and defend this club as I think it's got some really great people and would NEVER try to discourage people from joining.  I guess the problem is if I encourage people to join and they ask me why, I am going to be like my buddies and be silent.

Activities and benefits mostly; honestly as silly as it may sound, something simple like the TT, or a weekend ride would be enough to justify myself becoming a member.  The way I see it now it's more of a contribution than a membership, I just don't see the difference in being a member and a follower (someone that's a member of the forum is how I'm addressing the term follower).  I have attended events in the past solely because they benefited the club, and I would purchase swag to benefit the club as a way to show my monetary support, but I don't see a benefit of becoming a "member" (outside of monetarily supporting the club; but seeing as they only get 40% of that - even then that's difficult to use that as a reason).   

It's really the same with other fund raising if you think about it; sure everyone agrees it's a GREAT cause; but without a 5k, bake sale, raffle, tshirt/swag there just isn't as many people who participate.   

Also, this comes back to Emily's original post, I truly believe there is more concern in gaining members (and not their money), I am just throwing out ideas.

  
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Re: The Trailblazers need your help!!
Reply #44 - 04/26/17 at 9:01pm
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sCvHeaVens wrote on 04/26/17 at 8:02pm:




Sure I'll share some thought; and I think a lot of people probably think similar but don't want to get flamed for speaking out.  I have only been riding bikes for a little over 2 years so a lot of it may just be me being uneducated about the club part of the forum so please educate me if I'm missing something. 

Let me preface this by saying I support and defend this club as I think it's got some really great people and would NEVER try to discourage people from joining.  I guess the problem is if I encourage people to join and they ask me why, I am going to be like my buddies and be silent.

Activities and benefits mostly; honestly as silly as it may sound, something simple like the TT, or a weekend ride would be enough to justify myself becoming a member.  The way I see it now it's more of a contribution than a membership, I just don't see the difference in being a member and a follower (someone that's a member of the forum is how I'm addressing the term follower).  I have attended events in the past solely because they benefited the club, and I would purchase swag to benefit the club as a way to show my monetary support, but I don't see a benefit of becoming a "member" (outside of monetarily supporting the club; but seeing as they only get 40% of that - even then that's difficult to use that as a reason).  

It's really the same with other fund raising if you think about it; sure everyone agrees it's a GREAT cause; but without a 5k, bake sale, raffle, tshirt/swag there just isn't as many people who participate.  

Also, this comes back to Emily's original post, I truly believe there is more concern in gaining members (and not their money), I am just throwing out ideas.



Membership is power. Power to approach land managers not only locally but at a state and federal level to obtain and keep access to public land. There is a huge push in the current congress to sell or transfer public land to the states for easier disposal for business. To paraphrase the NRA "Congress wants to get your trails".
Membership also provides under the general liability policy some protection for the club for the 
Power to partner with existing land use agreements for maintenance of the over 120 miles of trail in the CLT area. 

The IMBA/SORBA/THTB dues are split. The IMBA insurance program covers people who are doing the trail work. The land managers requires it. When we were on our own several years ago the rate increase would have eaten all of our dues and then some. That is just for a general liability policy. Partnering with IMBA/SORBA allowed us to keep the dues reasonable and still provide trail work. 
The remainder we keep helps to provide insurance and maintenance for our sizeable amount of equipment; A mini excavator: two small skid loaders, a 4 wheeler, a trailer, chainsaws, hand tools, leaf blowers, and much more. 
Membership also provides under the general liability policy some protection for the club for the few events we do have. That is why the sign up sheets should be used for the rides and work days. 

As far as hosting races that is a whole new set of problems. We can with our existing insurance hold a time trial event. I don't claim to understand the difference between a time trial and a race in that aspect. 
To buy a separate policy to cover a race or skills clinics is very expensive. We also have to have some equipment to measure the event. We have left that to Neal Boyd who makes his living doing just that. 
To present skills clinics we need to have in addition to the insurance, certified instructor(s) to meet the insurance requirements again an expense. To have an instructor certified to teach something more than a ride leader involves several multi day classes and a cost of over a grand by the time all is said and done. Then there are continuing courses to maintain the certification. 
The land managers who own or manage the trails demand the coverage to mitigate their liability.

Oh, and this web site costs us too.



While I appreciate the input and what participation I want to ask sCvHeaVens and others; You're getting the milk, can you help us buy the cow? You spend more than the $30 in dues on bike parts every year.
  
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Re: The Trailblazers need your help!!
Reply #45 - 04/26/17 at 10:03pm
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Tom F wrote on 04/26/17 at 9:01pm:


While I appreciate the input and what participation I want to ask sCvHeaVens and others; You're getting the milk, can you help us buy the cow? You spend more than the $30 in dues on bike parts every year.



I do agree with you, the fees helps a lot even if only the 40% is given to the club. Selling goods I do not know if we could get a 40% margin. 

Anyway as I said I cannot be too active within the organization (meetings)as I have other organizations I work with already, but you can run ideas with me and if you want you can message me in private.

  
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Re: The Trailblazers need your help!!
Reply #46 - 04/27/17 at 4:15pm
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Tom F wrote on 04/26/17 at 9:01pm:



While I appreciate the input and what participation I want to ask sCvHeaVens and others; You're getting the milk, can you help us buy the cow? You spend more than the $30 in dues on bike parts every year.



Tom - this goes back to my statement about it being a donation... its not about the money for me either; the question I was replying to was how to gain more members or make it more appealing to become a member.
  
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Re: The Trailblazers need your help!!
Reply #47 - 04/27/17 at 4:18pm
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DG wrote on 04/26/17 at 10:03pm:



I do agree with you, the fees helps a lot even if only the 40% is given to the club. Selling goods I do not know if we could get a 40% margin. 

Anyway as I said I cannot be too active within the organization (meetings)as I have other organizations I work with already, but you can run ideas with me and if you want you can message me in private.



You don't think there is potential to make more than 3-4000 a year from selling goods?  Or is my math that bad?
  
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Re: The Trailblazers need your help!!
Reply #48 - 04/27/17 at 5:49pm
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sCvHeaVens wrote on 04/27/17 at 4:18pm:


You don't think there is potential to make more than 3-4000 a year from selling goods?  Or is my math that bad?


I do not know how you base your forecast to project 3-4000  in sales per year, 4000 a year for 50 average sale is 80 sales a year, a little bit more than the double (if we give a 40% markup) if you were talking about net profit. This is a very low number.
I do not have the club budget and figures but from what I see they have a lot of expenses, and that is why they try to cash in also with membership, I do not think 3-4000 is a lot to maintain all the tracks, and everything else, frankly. 
I also think that it is true that there might not be a "visible" benefit to be member (sorry i reply to your statement) but try to look from my point of view. I like to go and have a trail taken care or updated, and the yearly fee to me is nothing for this benefit. I wish all was going in their pockets but now we know that there is an insurance paid by IMBA, which is a great benefit. Think about it and become a member!
  
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Re: The Trailblazers need your help!!
Reply #49 - 04/27/17 at 5:55pm
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Tom F wrote on 04/26/17 at 9:01pm:


Membership is power.


Tom, is there a way to make non member pay to use the the trails? I know i am pissing off many people now but some parks have fees, so why not the various trails that you maintain? 
  
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Re: The Trailblazers need your help!!
Reply #50 - 04/27/17 at 7:04pm
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DG wrote on 04/27/17 at 5:55pm:


Tom, is there a way to make non member pay to use the the trails? I know i am pissing off many people now but some parks have fees, so why not the various trails that you maintain? 

  We (The Club) do not own the trails. The land manager can charge a fee but that is unlikely especially in municipal parks. We have memorandums of understanding which is basically a contract to provide so many hours per year for maintenance on each trail. To answer your question, no. 

Some trails get more love than others. For example Beatty gets a lot of love because of where it is in CLT. Lake Norman State Park gets a lot of use but few volunteers to work. This is because of the distance. We cannot put a donation box there. Uwharrie is another example. It is managed by the USFS. 

And you are not pissing me off. I have been a THTB member since 2005 or 2006 after moving here from out west. Was involved with trails and advocacy in a couple places there. Took up MTB in 1993 or 94. 
What hair I have left is grey and I don't know how much longer I can ride or do trail work. My point is to keep the wonderful resources we have here and across the country new blood needs to come on board full of questions and ambition and willing to pick up where us old farts left off. Some of the club founders have passed the torch and gone their way. 
To pick up the shovel and McCleod you gotta ask questions to keep from re inventing the wheel. 
Tom Wink
« Last Edit: 04/27/17 at 7:06pm by Tom F »  
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Re: The Trailblazers need your help!!
Reply #51 - 04/27/17 at 7:56pm
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Tom F wrote on 04/27/17 at 7:04pm:


To pick up the shovel and McCleod you gotta ask questions to keep from re inventing the wheel. 
Tom Wink


Tom I have also reached an age where it is tough to work physically. I came from Italy few years ago, a place where we had almost no support at any level. The good thing there that a lot of the trails are pre-existing, thanks to country people that created unpaved tracks, trekkers and former military trails and roads. Now the IMBA is flourishing also there and more modern tracks and bike park have been built.
I ask questions to see if I can give ideas or push others to come out with better ones. 
So another one, what about building a real bike park where members pay less than non members? What about getting in touch with a small town in the outskirts of Charlotte that has land to give. I know here land is $$$ and people prefer to keep it and sell when the right offer is made, but municipalities with little to no "fun factor" to offer to residents don't you think that they could be interested? I understand that you get a 1000 no before a yes, but have you tried this route?
  
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Re: The Trailblazers need your help!!
Reply #52 - 04/28/17 at 2:41pm
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As is noted, donations, memberships all help the club. I think we've done incredible things to the area for not only ourselves but others who enjoy the work we put in on trails.

The work done by the board and various other members to work with land managers etc... is time consuming on a personal level. I'm not sure but other states (see link for Arkansas) - (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links); use tourism as a vehicle for more trails, more help, more money. That isn't to say that THTB haven't done this or are pursuing it - Tom any thoughts on this...?

The more we help physically on the trails, donations, memberships the more we all get back. I've been here as a member since 2012, don't get to attend many meetings but proudly renew each year knowing the club gets some of it.
  
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Re: The Trailblazers need your help!!
Reply #53 - 04/28/17 at 3:19pm
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Another idea, connected to "building" a bike park. Have you ever thought to use crowdfunding? Or getting a grant with a municipality via (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links) I know these two are labor intensive as preparation of documents etc. But could be an Idea that i presume you have already evaluated.
  
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Re: The Trailblazers need your help!!
Reply #54 - 04/28/17 at 6:36pm
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Slo-Moshun wrote on 04/28/17 at 2:41pm:


I've been here as a member since 2012, don't get to attend many meetings but proudly renew each year knowing the club gets some of it.


Thank you for that man!   

BTW, we just crested 400 members this month Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

Even if you don't have time to give, the memberships and donations really help.  We need $$$ to keep our 4 machines running right, tools in the hands of the right people, and to jump start our new trail projects!  We've got quite a few in development right now.


  
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Re: The Trailblazers need your help!!
Reply #55 - 04/28/17 at 7:15pm
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DG wrote on 04/27/17 at 5:55pm:


Tom, is there a way to make non member pay to use the the trails? I know i am pissing off many people now but some parks have fees, so why not the various trails that you maintain? 



So the question is asked how to get more official members and it not being about the money, comments are made from a non member for suggestions, and your reply is how can we MAKE non members pay to use the trails.  Are you suggesting making people walking the trails pay as well? 

A kiosk with DONATIONS sounds great, and I'm all for donating to a good cause such as keeping equipment up and running for trail maintenance but it's still not addressing the difference between being a "member" and donating to the club.   

Regarding the spending more than $30 a year on bike parts - if you think of it like that; there are a lot of memberships out there for far less than $30 a year that I also don't join as they don't say to me - hey that's super appealing let me hop on there right now and join that membership.

The comment about $3-4000 was in reference to money brought in per year from membership dues ($30 x 40% = $12 x ~400 ppl).  Yes, I believe you can get more than $12 per year from people by other methods such as swag selling... there is no way I'm in the minority with me being "all for drinking the milk for free", but I still feel compelled to buy a swag or attend events for what I thought was supporting the club in my own way.

I really thought this was about gaining memberships but I can see that it's started a fire so I'm done with it; apologies if I've p!ssed anyone off, it was supposed to be constructive.

  
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Re: The Trailblazers need your help!!
Reply #56 - 04/28/17 at 7:29pm
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TrillWill wrote on 04/28/17 at 6:36pm:



BTW, we just crested 400 members this month Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy





Awesome! Lets crest 500 next!  Still in amazement of the # of  trails this club has created and maintain!
  
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Reply #57 - 04/28/17 at 8:56pm
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sCvHeaVens wrote on 04/28/17 at 7:15pm:



I really thought this was about gaining memberships but I can see that it's started a fire so I'm done with it; apologies if I've p!ssed anyone off, it was supposed to be constructive.



Noone is pissed!!!  Grin
  
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Re: The Trailblazers need your help!!
Reply #58 - 04/29/17 at 2:06am
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sCvHeaVens wrote on 04/28/17 at 7:15pm:



So the question is asked how to get more official members and it not being about the money, comments are made from a non member for suggestions, and your reply is how can we MAKE non members pay to use the trails.  Are you suggesting making people walking the trails pay as well? 

A kiosk with DONATIONS sounds great, and I'm all for donating to a good cause such as keeping equipment up and running for trail maintenance but it's still not addressing the difference between being a "member" and donating to the club.  

Regarding the spending more than $30 a year on bike parts - if you think of it like that; there are a lot of memberships out there for far less than $30 a year that I also don't join as they don't say to me - hey that's super appealing let me hop on there right now and join that membership.

The comment about $3-4000 was in reference to money brought in per year from membership dues ($30 x 40% = $12 x ~400 ppl).  Yes, I believe you can get more than $12 per year from people by other methods such as swag selling... there is no way I'm in the minority with me being "all for drinking the milk for free", but I still feel compelled to buy a swag or attend events for what I thought was supporting the club in my own way.

I really thought this was about gaining memberships but I can see that it's started a fire so I'm done with it; apologies if I've p!ssed anyone off, it was supposed to be constructive.



I'm a member, I do trail maintenance whenever I get sone time and.i buy parts occasionally. You are a person who pisses me off. You post about buying a bunch of parts and complain about being a "member". You know why attitudes get thrown around from any voluntary organization because a small percentage keep it going and a large percentage complain and don't contribute time or money. I've had enough. Are you kidding me with your banter?!  Move a stick on your next ride or contribute 30 bucks your call!
  
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Treasurer '11 to '18.
Trail Chair '12-'18,
'20-'21

Posts: 11858
Location: Lake Norman
Joined: 08/04/03
Re: The Trailblazers need your help!!
Reply #59 - 04/29/17 at 9:13pm
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I think people get hung up on the word "membership".  This club wouldn't have been able to build all that sweet trail everyone gets to ride without membership dues, donations and grants we've received over the years.  Some people can't help with the actual trail work so they donate.  I've seen donations anywhere from $100-$2000 from individuals and even had some folks just walk up and give me $100 cash for the club.

To me personally when people balk at giving back to the trails it gives me a vibe of ungratefulness.  We had 4 club trails and one private trail back in 2002.  We now have triple that in trail systems and 4-5 times that in actual trail mileage with more coming on line every year.  Many folks don't realize how far we've come and how good they have it.

WE NEED EVERY TRAIL USERS' HELP. IT TAKES EVERYONE OF US PITCHING IN TO KEEP THIS WONDERFUL RESOURCE WE HAVE.

That's all I've got for now.  Smiley

Go ride cause it's beautiful out!
  
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