I have a question, I remember I have read in one of the post that e-bikes are not allowed in parks and trails in the USA, in other words their use is very restricted. Am I correct? Will this change?

Doc00t wrote on 09/20/17 at 2:23pm:


I was reading about the Federal laws that allows the use of e-bikes on paved areas only or where offroad vehicles are alloed. The Federal Law also prevails on state laws therefore state parks etc have to follow the federal law in this regards. Private land is different of course!

Banjopickin wrote on 09/20/17 at 3:45pm:


Machines are taking over... 
I have found this (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
there are no laws in NC, therefore Federal Laws are the law...
You made a great point, what shops has to say about this? I know that in Italy ebikes are allowed everywhere unless stated otherwise, here there is the vehicle thing.... even though I really do not think it is a vehicle (but what do I know???)

Banjopickin wrote on 09/20/17 at 4:32pm:


Frankly I could not care if they are in the woods, again personal opinion. I think that are a great help for those who have no more stamina but still up to enjoy trails. They are not like motorcycles, they do not pollute or leave heavy markings. But I see your point. Frankly if you are 30-40-50 and you ride an e-bike on a trail, I think you should spend the money wiser elsewhere. 

I test rode one.
 
It's like somebody surgically replaced my legs with those of Lance Armstrong in his prime, x2. 

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Fortunately, I don't need one on a single track trail. 
I can't wait until all the uber-competitive types with poor bike control and suspect judgment get a hold of one of these. And use it as another excuse to go faster by power sliding through turns, etc..
On that day, many trail users (not able to differentiate the difference) will demand that mountain bikes not be allowed on local area trails at all.

There's definitely a place for them. But in my opinion, there's just not enough real estate around here on trails designed for non-motorized peddle bikes.

My issue is they are relatively new and the  power assist is minimal now. If they are allowed in while the electric system are  in their infancy and then they become more powerful, what happens then. It's a slippery slope of no return. 

You can bet technology is going to keep throwing better batteries and stronger motors in them every year. 

There is a NO Motorized vehicle sign at Sherman.  I believe it is Parks and Rec sign. 

DG wrote on 09/21/17 at 12:30am:


I know a couple of 65+ year old dudes still riding Pisgah on big bikes... Age is a number... take care of yourself now and you can easily ride into your 70s and 80s.

Aside from that... when you can run a 30t chain ring with a 11-52t cassette do you need an ebike? I think not... Thats more than enough range for anyone. Plus with gearbox drivetrains becoming better, lighter, etc. you will get an immense gear range that can carry even the most unfit of us up the hill motor-free.

And if you are that out of shape to need electricity, how do you plan on muscling around a 50lb bike on tight, technical trail when descending? Those things are not nimble or agile at all... at least not the ones I rode.

I just dont see it other than its another way to sell a bike and make money. Im all for making money though


Also... I dont buy the whole "it increases access for those that might not otherwise ride"... I see that section of the eBike market as extremely small. What current 65 year old is suddenly like "Oh &^&^! Im going to mountain bike!"... none is the answer.

And if your not  very old or disabled and you need an eBike you are simply lazy. And like my daddy told me... "There is no excuse for laziness..."

Ebikes on the road?... Im all for that.

Party on...

Please STOP asking for permission.  There is nothing wrong with ebikes.   If you want an ebike... purchase one and ride it with pride.  

I have said in the past please stop asking for absolution... if you need or desire an ebike don't ask the collective to approve your decision.  

ChosenOne wrote on 09/22/17 at 3:38am:


Who is asking for absolution? I was asking the peers point of view! Of course if I want to buy an e-bike I will buy no matter of what other people think! I was wondering about e-bikes as I have been reding that are not allowed in most places so why to buy one. Theun the post went on they why you need one. I keep my opinion, ebikes are great for certain people. Not me, et this point in my life.

Because there's money to be made, ebikes will be inevitable. Pressure from the industry will force public land managers to allow them. Riding them wherever owners want to ride them will become a civil right, as we can already see in the posts from current owners. ("I'll ride my ebike wherever I want to ride it, and I'm not asking permission")

As for ebikes opening up mtn biking to those whose leg strength is insufficient to pedal normal bikes, I would ask what makes them think their upper body strength is sufficient to handle these heavier bikes off road? Maybe Darwinism will eventually work this thing out.

At least there will still be RRT. (Please Steve?  )

[So flame on...I already said you guys will win, so let this bitter curmudgeon have my opinion!]

ChosenOne wrote on 09/22/17 at 1:42pm:


Sorry, wasn't implying you were hating, just asking a crowd of mtn bikers in general what they think is likely to get some lol

DG wrote on 09/22/17 at 5:45pm:


The difference is that the things you mention are not such groundbreaking innovations that those who use them want to change the nature of the sport to accommodate them. Suspension forks and dropper posts have no effect at all on other trail users.

And I realize that the things I'm speaking of have not really happened at this point because e-bikes are too new, but they will.

Cherokee wrote on 09/22/17 at 9:56pm:

Why what's the effect of an ebikes?

ChosenOne wrote on 09/22/17 at 8:16pm:



So I can set up a badminton game in the middle of the trail?

I own a Specialized Levo and a Specialized Camber 29. If I want a good workout I use my Camber and if I want a fun (fast for uphill) I may use my e-bike. Its also good in the summer. They are not cheap and you may just want to consider a new carbon fiber bike with 1x12 gears because they are so much lighter than a regular frame mtn bike or ebike.

I have now filed all E-Bike posts, tubeless posts, news about anthem kneeling, news about trump tweets...in my "Heard about it too many times, don't give a F any more" folder.

Thanks. 

FMWilly wrote on 09/28/17 at 4:14pm:


Tell me do you think it is worth the money or we are not yet there? Why you think it is better to go with a lighter ebike? Afteralll the "weight" of the assisted motor etc is already off the chart compared to a normal bike or I am wrong?

I met someone tonight with a full squishy e-bike.  Aside from the bottom bracket and the lager down tube (battery) you couldn't discern it from any trek or specialized mountain bike.  The rider was extremely hesitant to talk about the bike due the the a$$hats that vilify these bikes.   

The rider was over 50 and had lived in europe... where these bikes are UNIVERSALLY accepted... had previously owned a more road bike specific e-bike.

I get that you don't "like" e-bikes but screw you... you are a pretentious A$$-hole.  They have gears... and are NOT capable of moving faster than those gears are are capable of propelling a bicycle. 

RAMFB

IntheBush wrote on 10/01/17 at 2:45am:

True what you say, but IMBA does not write the rules of the use of vehicle unless they own that land. These are federal laws, which makes them a little bit more official. Coming to Europe (and I talk specifically about Italy), the regulation allows any vehicle to be used everywhere unless posted otherwise, only rule that vehicles must be of mass production,  and therefore tested and approved by the department of transportation. To give you another example quads or how they are called, in Italy are street legal....
IMBA in Italy has even less power that in the USA,  I know this as the president of the Italian chapter is from Torino and a friend of mine.  This to say that they cannot regulate who go where and with what, as I said before they might look you waited if they see you. 
I personally, as stated before,  do not see anything wrong with ebikes. It will come the time I might consider to purchase one, but not yet. 
Anyway thank you for your feedback. My question is do you think that this will change? Do you think that the industry as in many other cases will promote their will and ask for changes or if is too early to say?

DG wrote on 10/01/17 at 12:23pm:


I think we will continue to see their use restricted on some trails, and encouraged on others.

Like you point out, it's up to individual land owners/managers whether to allow them or not. 

As the technology progresses I suspect we'll see e-bikes get lighter and more powerful. So, how would one regulate something with the weight of a bicycle but the power of a dirt bike? Sure, it's in the industries best interest to welcome everybody to the party. And they are heavily involved in marketing these as mountain bikes. Sort of blurring the traditional line between dirt bikes (motorcycles) and bicycles.

I think most public multi-use trails will keep the status quo as it is for now, and continue to regulate whether a particular vehicle has a motor intended for propelling itself or not.

Beyond that, like every other vehicle under the sun, everyone has to make the decision whether to acquire one for trail riding and the choice of whether to follow the rules on the trail in which they ride, or not. As long as they are a responsible human being and follow posted rules intended to protect every ones safety, access and sanity on the trail, I don't have a problem with them.

However, it doesn't make any sense to me for some to express anger at other trail or forum users for simply pointing out these rules, or the politics behind why these rules are in place.

I was racing nationals this year up in Snowshoe.  When I crossed the finish line I had two USAC officials ask if they could inspect my bike.  They had a device attached to an Ipad and were scanning the bottom bracket.  I am assuming they were looking for magnetic impulse...  It evidently is getting more common for convert use of e-bike technology in the race world.....

Watcher wrote on 10/01/17 at 9:40pm:


This...  Thanks for another voice of reason Steve...

Cheers

Saw an ebike at Sherman today.  Full on throttle... no pedal assist.. we were stopped at the lake for a mechanical.  Heard a noise just hauling towards the lake loop like a mad man on the straight away to the lake Loop.  We were like dayem, that dude must be fast cause I've NEVER heard a sound like that.  As he turned the corner I dropped my jaw thinking someone was beasting a full DH rig through Sherman... no pedal strokes but he was accelerating towards us and we shortly saw what it was...  quite sad really.

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IntheBush wrote on 10/02/17 at 1:31am:

Lol just like drones! I think they are still too pricey for a kid that still has to grow up.

I think in the USA its currently 20mph / 750 watts.   

I saw one at Sherman the other day as well (I think last Tuesday); everyone is a$$hats until we all get kicked out of P&R trails because people are determining their own definition of motorized vehicle.

bikermedic wrote on 10/02/17 at 12:47am:



This.  There is a good argument for pedal assist for sure.  The problem is when a non assist bike runs over another rider, hiker, etc on public land.  What happens then.  It won't be good for anyone. 

The problem is drawing the line against pedal assist and electric bikes on public lands.  Without banning both, it will be hard to enforce. 

I doubt these bikes, or most of their potential riders shred hard enough to have any more of an impact on the trail than a regular bike does.  When they can go 70 miles and hour and you can rooster tail a fountain of dirt from the starting position then I may raise an eyebrow.  But I can see how they make a lot of riders nervous that the end is nigh.  So much to be scared of and vigilant over when it comes to OUR trails.  We can't let hikers soak up all the crazy.

Banjopickin wrote on 10/03/17 at 3:49pm:


Well the "waste issue" should be applied to every component. From the liquid for tubeless, to the grease, degreaser etc. Yes Lithium Batteries are a pollution problem but it is true you do not have to replace them every month... 

DG wrote on 10/03/17 at 4:04pm:


True... there is waste and environmental costs generated from everything... but you can choose to spend your $$ on things that dont have such a large negative impact on the environment... 

Same reason I dont ride carbon bikes anymore and dont run any carbon components. And I try to use "naturally" sourced lubricants, sealants, de-greasers etc.

That and I am a stupid hippie who composts, buys local, recycles everything, and reuses as much as I can.

RRR!

Banjopickin wrote on 10/03/17 at 4:13pm:

Do the same stuff except from Carbon. The recycling culture here is really strange. In my neighbourhood there are people who I bet are scared to recycle as I never see the blue bin out. When we go to Italy they have a recycling system very strict, there are four different trash containers, plus they collect the non-recyclables in a see through plastic bag so that they can inspect that you have really recycled. They also have a composting collector....

Banjopickin wrote on 10/03/17 at 3:49pm:


Don't let me catch you out there night riding with some lightweight fancy battery attached to your head lamp.   

Kidding! Nothing wrong with being a good steward of the environment.  I guess my perception of eBikes is that they are more Prius than Porsche.

Banjopickin wrote on 10/03/17 at 6:15pm:



Only if you are drinking Hazy New England IPAs and you carry all your stuff in a messenger bag.   

About time to fire up the head lamps for me too.  I usually can't get on a trail during the work week any sooner than 6:30pm.

Banjopickin wrote on 10/03/17 at 4:13pm:

That's me but I still ride carbon. 


BTW if you own an iPad, iPhone or any mobile device and complain about L-ion batteries you really don't have much of an argument toe defend.  Just sayin...

Banjopickin wrote on 10/05/17 at 12:21pm:

I recycle both at home and work.  We recycle 3-4 more times material than we throw away at home and the shop.  I even have someone pick up old metal to recycle.

Raise chickens for eggs and meat.  36' x 36' garden. Huge compost pile. Massive blue bushes and fig trees.  Hunting in the Fall. I'm right there with ya!

Oh, and that sweet a** rainwater collection system I built!

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Enoch wrote on 10/07/17 at 5:20pm:

So if you consider your body as the motor that propels your bike. Then that means bikes are not allowed. Because bikes are a vehicle.

Impaler 58 wrote on 10/08/17 at 12:05pm:

Impaler 58 wrote on 10/08/17 at 12:05pm:


By Law, bikes are considered a vehicle, By Law, your body is not considered a motor.

You should debate this with sign. Seems pretty clear to me

IntheBush wrote on 10/09/17 at 2:01pm:


Slippery slope much.  That is quite a stretch really.  That bike has a hand throttle.

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ChosenOne wrote on 10/09/17 at 4:13pm:


Yeah, you're right. It's a slippery slope all right. 

Maybe you missed this part;

Quote:


So, how you gonna know if it's got a hand throttle, or not? Whether it's a mod or it was purchased that way to begin with. 

Somebody going to be checking bikes at the door?

The big boys (Specialized, Trek) with their politically correct, peddle assist bikes from bike shops are going to have a very small part of this market.  

I suspect if you have one of these and you ride responsibly and with a little common sense, nobody will say a word. But you still need the sign to keep the DB's and the fakers out. And to offer some recourse if they don't get the message.  

The way it stands now, peddle assist e-bikes are allowed at Fishstix and Watcher said he didn't have a problem with them at this point. And I think the WWC is cool with them. So, what's the problem again?