Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 3  Print
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) USNWC Trail Maintenance (Read 7209 times)
msedly
Small Cog
***
Offline


Work Ride Tarheel Trailblazers

Posts: 414
Location: Dallas, NC
Joined: 09/19/09
USNWC Trail Maintenance
11/14/17 at 11:46pm
Print Post  
Anyone been out to the whitewater center in the past few weeks?  I ride there a good bit and they have been doing a lot of trail maintenance lately which is a good thing.  Lots of drainage fixes that really help the trail dry out quickly.   

However, I'm a bit annoyed by some of the trail changes.  There has been a ton of removal and/or covering up of roots and rocks that really didn't seem necessary.  Some of which was on the more difficult trails (Carpet, Goat Hill, etc.).  There has been some extensive reshaping of the main trail between goat hill and the climb before weigh station also.  They covered up some of the more fun features that make the trail more than just a boring connector trail.

Just wanted to see what other folks thought of the changes.  I don't like them, but I'm also in the camp that prefers folks to elevate their riding abilities over the neutering of a trail.  Is this a case of trying to keep the masses happy or does the new trail maintenance crew have too much freedom?
  
(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links) (Attachment deleted)
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MX Mac
Coaster Bike
**
Offline


Old School, West Side
CLT Kid

Posts: 94
Joined: 04/28/16
Re: USNWC Trail Maintenance
Reply #1 - 11/15/17 at 2:18am
Print Post  
I have been lobbying for changes to that very section. I am heading out there on Thursday Afternoon. Looking forward to riding it.  I am all for making that section after goat hill safer and more enjoyable for true blue riders. That whole quadrant of trails in that corner is my favorite section so anything they do out there is definitely positive.  Goat hill and carpet could use some work but I rarely ride those, so never really provided any feedback.     Personally,I want to just ride a trail vs deal with overly difficult natural TTF’s created by years of massive erosion uncovering 8 -12 inch tall protruding root systems.  It kills the flow.   I’m not saying everything has to be like the new Ann Springs work sbut there’s a balance.  I guess if we want more of a challenge, we ride, Carpet, or the section between Goat and Toilet, East Main or Academy.
  
(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links) (Attachment deleted)
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
StevenA
Coaster Bike
**
Offline



Posts: 162
Joined: 06/28/16
Re: USNWC Trail Maintenance
Reply #2 - 11/15/17 at 3:30am
Print Post  
A terrible tragedy has befallen South Main.  What was once a beautiful mountain bike trail has been turned into a paved greenway.  A toll lane is scheduled to be added in 2018 to pay for future projects.

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)

Far and away you were the best trail feature.  I remember the thrilling day I unraveled the mystery of your roots and I was never stuck again.  But now, no riders will experience that joy.  Instead the masses will ride over, oblivious to the challenge that you presented.  Missed will be the opportunities for riders to improve their skill.  Cries of anguish will be replaced by the gentle hum of e-bikes merrily making their way.  #brappppp
  
(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links) (Attachment deleted)

I used to be addicted to the Hokey Pokey but then I turned myself around.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Wears my bike
IB Room
In The Loop
Offline



Posts: 482
Location: Charlotte, NC
Joined: 02/05/12
Re: USNWC Trail Maintenance
Reply #3 - 11/15/17 at 4:04am
Print Post  
Ok, seriousl? The most famous root step up is gone? That’s total bs...I get root removal if the root adds no intrinsic value other than flicking you in the Dick. But that is a technical feature which added value by making you a better rider and one you learn how to ride it provides no stoppage to your flow. Taking some of the smaller roots out before and after takes nothing away from the tech while still serving the goal of appealing to the masses.
  
(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links) (Attachment deleted)

I'm glad that this is an environment where you feel free to fail.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Doc00t
IB Room
In The Loop
Project Board
Offline


When in DOUBT, PEDAL it
OUT

Posts: 1785
Location: University
Joined: 05/09/12
Re: USNWC Trail Maintenance
Reply #4 - 11/15/17 at 5:17am
Print Post  
I cried out in anguish tonight when I saw that it had been neutered.  So many great memories of making that left hand turn and making my way up that beautiful mass of roots. 

You will be missed my friends
(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
  
(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links) (Attachment deleted)

Scars are like Tattoos only with better Stories
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
worker-rider
In The Loop
*****
Offline



Posts: 962
Location: concord nc
Joined: 12/18/04
Re: USNWC Trail Maintenance
Reply #5 - 11/15/17 at 6:16am
Print Post  
I think they have done a great job by making that part easier for everyone to be able to get up without walking if you choose to even try to become a better rider.
  
(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links) (Attachment deleted)
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Robert C.
Big Ring
*****
Offline


Leaves are the ultimate
trail maintenance tool

Posts: 1806
Location: Available upon request
Joined: 11/22/04
Re: USNWC Trail Maintenance
Reply #6 - 11/15/17 at 12:15pm
Print Post  
Go ride FJB if you are looking for gnarcore.  No shortage of roots there.   Roll Eyes

  
(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links) (Attachment deleted)
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MTBman1127
Small Cog
***
Offline


Work Ride Drink Beer

Posts: 469
Location: Concord
Joined: 12/02/13
Re: USNWC Trail Maintenance
Reply #7 - 11/15/17 at 12:31pm
Print Post  
Robert C. wrote on 11/15/17 at 12:15pm:
Go ride FJB if you are looking for gnarcore.  No shortage of roots there.   Roll Eyes



FJB is like roots for roots sake. That was a least a feature that you needed a certain level of skill to get up, but not be an advanced rider. I would say your average blue rider should have been able to get up that. Or maybe my definition of blue is different than others. I think the skill levels are scaling back to green for everyone looking for flow.
  
(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links) (Attachment deleted)

Triangle Pest Control - 704.698.5357 - Low Trailblazer Rates
(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Wears my bike
IB Room
In The Loop
Offline



Posts: 482
Location: Charlotte, NC
Joined: 02/05/12
Re: USNWC Trail Maintenance
Reply #8 - 11/15/17 at 12:44pm
Print Post  
The difference with this root was it served as a technical feature which added value to the trail vs other roots and no value.  And the position that having to walk it at first detracted from your riding experience eliminates an entire experience which is essential to mountain biking; the joy of learning, practicing, and experiencing new skills. It’s not about looking for Gnar because this feature is definitively not gnarlly. And removing rocks and roots around which bring no value it to add flow to the trail is cool. 

But what you and many others will now miss out on is learning how to bump hop or step up with speed, and the realization that this root and many other trail features were not as i intimidaing as you thought. 

So when a feature like this removed and the response se to go ride fisher if you want gnar, my retort is go ride a greenway if you want to be assured you won’t have to get off your bike to walk.
  
(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links) (Attachment deleted)

I'm glad that this is an environment where you feel free to fail.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MTBman1127
Small Cog
***
Offline


Work Ride Drink Beer

Posts: 469
Location: Concord
Joined: 12/02/13
Re: USNWC Trail Maintenance
Reply #9 - 11/15/17 at 12:58pm
Print Post  
Wears my bike wrote on 11/15/17 at 12:44pm:
The difference with this root was it served as a technical feature which added value to the trail vs other roots and no value.  And the position that having to walk it at first detracted from your riding experience eliminates an entire experience which is essential to mountain biking; the joy of learning, practicing, and experiencing new skills. It’s not about looking for Gnar because this feature is definitively not gnarlly. And removing rocks and roots around which bring no value it to add flow to the trail is cool. 

But what you and many others will now miss out on is learning how to bump hop or step up with speed, and the realization that this root and many other trail features were not as i intimidaing as you thought. 

So when a feature like this removed and the response se to go ride fisher if you want gnar, my retort is go ride a greenway if you want to be assured you won’t have to get off your bike to walk.


I agree whole heartedly. Also most people that ride here have such a narrow scope of what riding is having never really ridden anywhere else but these few CLT trails.
  
(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links) (Attachment deleted)

Triangle Pest Control - 704.698.5357 - Low Trailblazer Rates
(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
ChosenOne
Little Ring
****
Offline



Posts: 600
Joined: 11/02/08
Re: USNWC Trail Maintenance
Reply #10 - 11/15/17 at 1:27pm
Print Post  

I haven't seen it yet.  But if it is what I think was done, this was done to that same section about 6 or 7 years ago.  It had to be done to keep the erosion from taking that tree on the right out.
I suspect it will be back to it's old form in a year or two.
Until then ride it or don't... that's your choice.


My question is have they done anything w/ that tower trail?  I stopped riding it on the regular because it is so eroded.  Such a cool section of trail that has received very little attention in recent years.  So much potential there if they would commit to dealing with the water flow on that hillside.   

Keep up the GREAT work WWC trail gnomes.   Cheesy
  
(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links) (Attachment deleted)
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
DK
Small Cog
***
Offline


Work Ride Tarheel Trailblazers

Posts: 348
Joined: 11/21/14
Re: USNWC Trail Maintenance
Reply #11 - 11/15/17 at 1:32pm
Print Post  
I think in some respect the South trail is a bit of a no-win situation for the WWC.  On one hand there is a desire for the masses that visit the WWC to ride on an occassional basis be able to do so and like it enough to want to come back.  On the other hand the desire to appeal to the mass of riders who have the skills to navigate such obstacles without difficulty and want to see them stay.  I don't know this for sure but my guess is that South and Lake are the most popular loops out there with the casual riders and so keeping them relatively tame keeps more visitors.  Obviously the hope is those visitors then spend money on beer or food or whatever while there.

Like mentioned earlier I was excited when I figured how to navigate that part without dismounting and learning the skills to do so makes riding more fun for me.  Others just want it to be easy all the way around which is why this kind of thing is done unfortunately.
  
(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links) (Attachment deleted)

David

2016 Santa Cruz Tallboy C
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
ChosenOne
Little Ring
****
Offline



Posts: 600
Joined: 11/02/08
Re: USNWC Trail Maintenance
Reply #12 - 11/15/17 at 1:38pm
Print Post  
DK wrote on 11/15/17 at 1:32pm:
I think in some respect the South trail is a bit of a no-win situation for the WWC.  On one hand there is a desire for the masses that visit the WWC to ride on an occassional basis be able to do so and like it enough to want to come back.  On the other hand the desire to appeal to the mass of riders who have the skills to navigate such obstacles without difficulty and want to see them stay.  I don't know this for sure but my guess is that South and Lake are the most popular loops out there with the casual riders and so keeping them relatively tame keeps more visitors.  Obviously the hope is those visitors then spend money on beer or food or whatever while there.

Like mentioned earlier I was excited when I figured how to navigate that part without dismounting and learning the skills to do so makes riding more fun for me.  Others just want it to be easy all the way around which is why this kind of thing is done unfortunately.



I don't think it has anything to do w/ making the trails easier for the green hats... it is simply time to put some maintenance into some of the long standing sections that have had little to none.
  
(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links) (Attachment deleted)
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Wears my bike
IB Room
In The Loop
Offline



Posts: 482
Location: Charlotte, NC
Joined: 02/05/12
Re: USNWC Trail Maintenance
Reply #13 - 11/15/17 at 2:01pm
Print Post  
DK wrote on 11/15/17 at 1:32pm:
I think in some respect the South trail is a bit of a no-win situation for the WWC.  On one hand there is a desire for the masses that visit the WWC to ride on an occassional basis be able to do so and like it enough to want to come back.  On the other hand the desire to appeal to the mass of riders who have the skills to navigate such obstacles without difficulty and want to see them stay.  I don't know this for sure but my guess is that South and Lake are the most popular loops out there with the casual riders and so keeping them relatively tame keeps more visitors.  Obviously the hope is those visitors then spend money on beer or food or whatever while there.

Like mentioned earlier I was excited when I figured how to navigate that part without dismounting and learning the skills to do so makes riding more fun for me.  Others just want it to be easy all the way around which is why this kind of thing is done unfortunately.



I would concede this point, its a no win for the WWC...All you can do is build trail, maintain trail, and hope those who ride it see and understand the vision.
  
(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links) (Attachment deleted)

I'm glad that this is an environment where you feel free to fail.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
BigBikeMike
Project Board
Offline


Work Ride Tarheel Trailblazers

Posts: 1593
Joined: 06/14/09
Re: USNWC Trail Maintenance
Reply #14 - 11/15/17 at 2:05pm
Print Post  
I probably shouldn't add my 2 cents in here being I don't live in the Charlotte area anymore, but it looks to me like they should have put dirt over the roots to protect that large tree on the right side of the trail. If they keep taking out the roots, that tree will fall one day. If you like rocky and rooty trails, come up to Snowshoe and ride.
  
(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links) (Attachment deleted)
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
BudLeach
Small Cog
***
Offline



Posts: 394
Location: Gastonia
Joined: 09/09/14
Re: USNWC Trail Maintenance
Reply #15 - 11/15/17 at 2:07pm
Print Post  
DK wrote on 11/15/17 at 1:32pm:
I think in some respect the South trail is a bit of a no-win situation for the WWC.  On one hand there is a desire for the masses that visit the WWC to ride on an occassional basis be able to do so and like it enough to want to come back.  On the other hand the desire to appeal to the mass of riders who have the skills to navigate such obstacles without difficulty and want to see them stay.  I don't know this for sure but my guess is that South and Lake are the most popular loops out there with the casual riders and so keeping them relatively tame keeps more visitors.  Obviously the hope is those visitors then spend money on beer or food or whatever while there.

Like mentioned earlier I was excited when I figured how to navigate that part without dismounting and learning the skills to do so makes riding more fun for me.  Others just want it to be easy all the way around which is why this kind of thing is done unfortunately.



This is pretty much how I viewed it. I was super bummed to see those glorious roots covered in dirt, and many others missing all together. While I do not personally like most of what they have done to the end of South Main, I can understand why they may have done it. 

I assume it is an attempt to keep the most popular main connector easy enough to keep the family rental crowd from getting discouraged and not coming back. UNSWC is a business, after all. It is not governed by the same principles as a free to the public, rider/volunteer built and managed trail system.

I guess some will love and applaud the trail "fixes" while others will despise the watering down of some of their favorite TTFs. You can't please everyone. I have to admit, after seeing the changes, I will be more likely to bring my wife down South Main now since she will be less likely to get frustrated and want to kill me. 

« Last Edit: 11/15/17 at 2:14pm by BudLeach »  
(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links) (Attachment deleted)
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
AMitchell47
Coaster Bike
**
Offline


Work Ride Tarheel Trailblazers

Posts: 101
Location: charlotte nc
Joined: 05/04/16
Re: USNWC Trail Maintenance
Reply #16 - 11/15/17 at 3:05pm
Print Post  
A lot of south main was getting pretty eroded and ragged, especially the downhills.  Hopefully they just covered the exposed roots with dirt instead of cutting them out.

If they did just cover them up, the dirt will be gone in a while.  At least there is maintenance being done, which is, hopefully in the long run, a good thing.
  
(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links) (Attachment deleted)
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Shredder
Big Ring
*****
Offline



Posts: 2077
Joined: 01/12/05
Re: USNWC Trail Maintenance
Reply #17 - 11/15/17 at 4:01pm
Print Post  
ChosenOne wrote on 11/15/17 at 1:27pm:

My question is have they done anything w/ that tower trail?  I stopped riding it on the regular because it is so eroded.  Such a cool section of trail that has received very little attention in recent years.  So much potential there if they would commit to dealing with the water flow on that hillside.   

Keep up the GREAT work WWC trail gnomes.   Cheesy


Tower Trail has been addressed. No more erosion and they fixed the jumps too. It was in excellent shape this weekend.
  
(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links) (Attachment deleted)
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MX Mac
Coaster Bike
**
Offline


Old School, West Side
CLT Kid

Posts: 94
Joined: 04/28/16
Re: USNWC Trail Maintenance
Reply #18 - 11/15/17 at 5:13pm
Print Post  
StevenA wrote on 11/15/17 at 3:30am:
A terrible tragedy has befallen South Main.  What was once a beautiful mountain bike trail has been turned into a paved greenway.  A toll lane is scheduled to be added in 2018 to pay for future projects.

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)

Far and away you were the best trail feature.  I remember the thrilling day I unraveled the mystery of your roots and I was never stuck again.  But now, no riders will experience that joy.  Instead the masses will ride over, oblivious to the challenge that you presented.  Missed will be the opportunities for riders to improve their skill.  Cries of anguish will be replaced by the gentle hum of e-bikes merrily making their way.  #brappppp



I finally figured out to go straight for the tree and at the last second steer just left and wheelie up over the roots. 

I'm fine with leaving a few TTF's like this but I also like the Trailblazers established precedent of having ride around options.  I don't think these changes in any way make it a boring connector trail.  That's pure blasphemy.   Also stoked to see Tower 93
  
(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links) (Attachment deleted)
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
StevenA
Coaster Bike
**
Offline



Posts: 162
Joined: 06/28/16
Re: USNWC Trail Maintenance
Reply #19 - 11/15/17 at 5:56pm
Print Post  
In all seriousness, the trail maintenance was a good idea and needed to be done both for the sustainability of the trail and the features.  Regardless of my personal preference, from a big picture perspective making trails more appealing to the masses is good for the longevity of trail riding/mountain biking.  Land owners, managers, governments are more like to commit resources to build and maintain trails when it satisfies the demand of a large group of people; inclusion over exclusion.  Imagine the trail landscape if the majority of Charlotte residents rode and/or supported bike trails.  Anyway we still have FISHER FARM ...  until we don't. 
  
(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links) (Attachment deleted)

I used to be addicted to the Hokey Pokey but then I turned myself around.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 3 
Print