Why are carbon frames still generally more expensive than alloy or steel these days?

Carbon has been around for quite a long time... it's generally been proven reliable for mass production and deployment.
Is there something inherent in the manufacturing process that requires more human intervention than with steel or alloy?   

there are lower priced carbon out there. Check on ebay and such. Like the people who defend those frames and bikes. They always say there made at the same factories as the bigger bike brands. Companies like Raleigh, Fuji ,Diamondback, and GT are  also some of the lower cost bikes from Chinese factories. I think these factories may catalog the frames they produce on their own. Then the other companies will purchase that line to add to their own. So such companies don't really have a R & D  department. The larger companies maybe contract the factories to build based on their specs. I don't know if that's how it all works, but it's an educated guess 

If you make it a singlespeed its even cheaper
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start with take offs in the parts bin and you can get pretty far
$175 frame used
$300 stans ss wheelset
$40 worth of spraypaint and masking tape

aluminum? you meant peasant metal?

ChosenOne wrote on 01/30/18 at 10:20pm:


Not all carbon is created equal... There is a reason Santa Cruz or Intense frames are so $$$ and cheap-o China knock-off bikes are cheap. Granted some of that is marketing, etc. but I wouldn't trust my teeth to a $150 carbon hardtail frame... No sir! 

Also... Steel and Alloy can be recycled which helps keep prices down. Carbon cannot and is usually dumped into the ocean (true story)...

pearl wrote on 01/30/18 at 5:52pm:


Too cool.

What are you doing in place of a chain tensioner?

My latest creation. It's solid. Price too low to mention. I had the wheel set and the fork already.

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I really do not know how the cost of the raw materials and labor hours compares between carbon fiber, and aluminium/steel frame manufacturing, but I can see how building with carbon fiber can be a more expensive endeavor. The molds are very complex and take a lot of time to make. 

Of course, hydroforming aluminum tubes also requires molds, but the molds can be smaller and simpler since each mold is only for one tube. This means less time to make each mold, and less expense if a mold is damaged and needs to be scrapped. Also think of the time it takes to make one component with each type of process. A hydroforming process can crank out well over a hundred tubes a day from a single mold. In carbon layup, that super expensive mold is tied up making one single frame section from the start of layup all the way to the end of cool down after the curing process. This means more molds are required to achieve an acceptable production volume. 

Also, welding tubes together is a much more flexible process. Want to tweak next years frame geo? They might not even need to create new hydroforming molds, just trim the tubes at a different length / angle. Welding robots can be re-programmed. Welding humans can adapt instantly! With carbon, the geo is literally set in billet steel. 

ChosenOne wrote on 02/01/18 at 1:00am:

Bingo.

my dream bike is still titanium . I seems the heat in the south would change the characteristics of a carbon frame. Probably not, but it just seems that way. Is carbon some sort of plastic?

Impaler 58 wrote on 02/01/18 at 5:31pm:

Space plastic