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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Erosion (Read 5199 times)
OoHoO
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Erosion
06/22/18 at 1:12pm
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Is it just me or have the trails taken a big erosion hit lately?

I've been at WWC, Beatty and BYT recently and it seems like the combination of that really heavy extended rain and then really dry conditions have hit the trails pretty hard.  A lot of extra off camber areas being worn away and berms getting worn really quickly resulting in extra cheater lines popping up.   

As always, thanks to all the trail gnomes! I see a lot of great work out there! It sucks the weather contributes to trail degradation in this way.
  
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Harry Balsagna
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Re: Erosion
Reply #1 - 06/22/18 at 1:21pm
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Let me just take this opportunity to blame the cheaters, sissy-pants riders, people that ride without helmets and roadies (ok fine, a few of you are cool) for the cheater lines at BYT/PRP.  that crap is getting old, fast.  Perhaps focus on your fitness level and technical skills on the bike instead of ruining what other people build and maintain on their own time.  You're never gonna beat Pennypacker anyways, why cheat to try?
  
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Re: Erosion
Reply #2 - 06/22/18 at 1:30pm
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Beatty is more cheater line than original line right now. After the bridge project this spring I had to step away for a bit, and the trail has not seen the attention it needs.
  
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Re: Erosion
Reply #3 - 06/22/18 at 1:42pm
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Harry Balsagna wrote on 06/22/18 at 1:21pm:
... for the cheater lines at BYT/PRP.  that crap is getting old, fast.


Agreed. I noticed they started popping up a lot after the greenway construction was finished. I'm all for more people getting into the sport and have no problem sharing the trail with newer riders, I was one just a few years ago. I just don't understand the thinking behind modifying the trail to suit one's abilities... I remember BYT kicked my ass the first few times I rode it, but i had no desire to make the trail easier. It just gave me something to strive for. 


Harry Balsagna wrote on 06/22/18 at 1:21pm:
You're never gonna beat Pennypacker anyways, why cheat to try? 
 
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Re: Erosion
Reply #4 - 06/22/18 at 2:09pm
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Its People and Weather.  They both suck.  We should strip their children away from them as a deterrent.  See how the Weather likes that!

Make the Trials Great again!

Trails Come First!

Trails lives matter!

Trails are people Too!



  
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Enoch
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Re: Erosion
Reply #5 - 06/22/18 at 2:26pm
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He is some of what I've learned after doing trailwork for 20 years at different places.

Most cut thrus are made or started by walkers. 
People will ride around the smallest root or rock for no reason.
If it is a full on obstacle, provide a ride around, but make it it longer, not shorter. 
Dig a big hole in a short cut if you want it to stop.
Most really fast guys stay on the path, they've  learned it is faster than trying to run in a new line. 
Reverse trail directions does not help with wear. It just moves it to a different spot.
80% of all trail wear comes from water management. Yes, even the so called "breaking bumps"
Bikers will get off and go to great lengths to drag their bike around a limb or a stick or broken tree, even though it could be easily pulled off trail.
Hard rains are better than long extended rains,
Most rain erosion comes in the spring. After the ground gets baked in during the summer, it gets as hard as concrete. 
Dear Park water bottles grow like wild flowers, THey just pop up everywhere.
Bikers rarely pic up trash off trail. 




« Last Edit: 06/22/18 at 2:29pm by Enoch »  
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Re: Erosion
Reply #6 - 06/22/18 at 3:30pm
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Doc00t wrote on 06/22/18 at 2:09pm:
Its People and Weather.  They both suck.  We should strip their children away from them as a deterrent.  See how the Weather likes that!

Make the Trials Great again!

Trails Come First!

Trails lives matter!

Trails are people Too!



Bwwahahahaha

And yes....

Dig a big hole in a short cut if you want it to stop.


  
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IntheBush
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Re: Erosion
Reply #7 - 06/23/18 at 12:45pm
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Erosion grows where water and people flow.
This is self evident.

A lot of rain this spring.

  
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Re: Erosion
Reply #8 - 06/23/18 at 1:50pm
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Human poo on shortcuts is better than any hole. At least that’s what I do do
  
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Re: Erosion
Reply #9 - 06/23/18 at 6:29pm
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Ha ha ha poo poo as deterrent!  That is rich! 
  
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Re: Erosion
Reply #10 - 06/23/18 at 8:19pm
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"Dig a big hole in a short cut if you want it to stop."

Grin
  
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Re: Erosion
Reply #11 - 06/25/18 at 10:20am
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Most cheater lines can be covered effectively within about 5-10 minutes.  Whereas Jerry is correct, digging a hole can be a real deterrent, most folks aren't riding with a shovel.  If everyone who disapproves of a cheater line stops for a minute to throw sticks on it whenever we see one, then they will not grow to be so prevalent.   
I've covered a couple lately (mostly at BYT, but also did one on Lake Loop at usnwc yesterday) and it's been my experience that other riders will come along, see what you're doing, and gleefully join in the fun.
  
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Re: Erosion
Reply #12 - 06/25/18 at 3:55pm
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My belief is, to best prevent cheater lines and go-arounds, we need to aggressively, and in advance, take out roots that "cause" cheaters to look for an easier route. If there is no easy way around due to trees and other obstacles, then the roots can/ should stay. But as soon as a new root gets 1/2 " or more above the tread, then cheaters look for, and find, ways around.

It's not always fun (or popular) to take out roots aggressively but it DOES WORK to keep the tread narrow and avoids go-arounds. I'd guess Enoch and others of long experience would also agree that there will always be plenty of roots available for those that love 'em and there are gonna be more popping up all the time, so no need to grieve for lost rrots; plenty more where they came from.

Someone has done alot of this de-rooting work at Sherman lately (along with nice drain and berm work)  and much of that tread looks and rides a lot better!
  
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Re: Erosion
Reply #13 - 06/25/18 at 8:18pm
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Enoch wrote on 06/22/18 at 2:26pm:

Most cut thrus are made or started by walkers. 
People will ride around the smallest root or rock for no reason.
If it is a full on obstacle, provide a ride around, but make it it longer, not shorter. 
Dig a big hole in a short cut if you want it to stop.
Most really fast guys stay on the path, they've  learned it is faster than trying to run in a new line. 
Reverse trail directions does not help with wear. It just moves it to a different spot.
80% of all trail wear comes from water management. Yes, even the so called "breaking bumps"
Bikers will get off and go to great lengths to drag their bike around a limb or a stick or broken tree, even though it could be easily pulled off trail.
Hard rains are better than long extended rains,
Most rain erosion comes in the spring. After the ground gets baked in during the summer, it gets as hard as concrete. 
Dear Park water bottles grow like wild flowers, THey just pop up everywhere.
Bikers rarely pic up trash off trail. 





All of Jerry's statements are 100% true!!!!!
Doug S.
  
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Re: Erosion
Reply #14 - 06/25/18 at 8:39pm
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This may be the perfect place to post my rant  Smiley

I get that opinions on this might vary but, I am tired of having to squeeze through two sorry little trees that have grown closely together like chopsticks ready to grab my handlebars and tick me off. Several of these "features" come to mind on local trails.  

For me, these are not fun features and they could be more of a hazard than a feature depending on how wide your bars are.  AND they usually occur on a fast or flowing section of trail, which would be awesome, but its not, because now you have to scrub speed and tip toe past these diabolical sht traps and then speed up again.  BOOOOO!!!!!
« Last Edit: 06/25/18 at 8:40pm by »  
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Re: Erosion
Reply #15 - 06/25/18 at 9:43pm
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I 100% agree with Enoch as well.  I've been building trail for 17 years locally and can say trail care is nothing more than water and user management.  If you put water and riders straight down the fall line, you will get an eroded mess quickly. If you get water off the trail quickly and undulate the trail up/down and left/right then you create a better trail experience and give the feeling of greater speed than is actually being ridden.

While roots are a subjective matter and depend on the intended trail rating and experience, typically removing roots does stop some cut throughs.  But so does a sh*t ton of debris and big heavy rocks!! Shocked
  
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Re: Erosion
Reply #16 - 06/25/18 at 10:41pm
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Many years ago when I was the TC at NM., I rode behind a guy that said he liked the roots. When we came to a bad rooty section, he went around them. I said "I thought you like the roots." I guess he didn't know what he liked. When I got to a good place, I went around him.

A few years ago while I was the TC at LNSP, I cut a few small trees, one on Laurel and one on Wildlife that had sap running out of them where the riders with wide bars had hit them. Some riders like wide bars, but I'm not one of them.

BBM
  
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Re: Erosion
Reply #17 - 06/26/18 at 1:24am
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BigBikeMike wrote on 06/25/18 at 10:41pm:
Many years ago when I was the TC at NM., I rode behind a guy that said he liked the roots. When we came to a bad rooty section, he went around them. I said "I thought you like the roots." I guess he didn't know what he liked. When I got to a good place, I went around him.

A few years ago while I was the TC at LNSP, I cut a few small trees, one on Laurel and one on Wildlife that had sap running out of them where the riders with wide bars had hit them. Some riders like wide bars, but I'm not one of them.

BBM


I like roots until they steer me off the trail! But I keep trying to figure out how to navigate them... especially at BYT.

I did cut a root out at the Tamale loop at SWDP, but it was out of anger and resentment.  Angry

PS: To the OP... I have not actually noticed any erosion difference where I ride (mostly west side).
« Last Edit: 06/26/18 at 1:27am by abruzzopat »  
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Re: Erosion
Reply #18 - 06/26/18 at 12:10pm
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abruzzopat wrote on 06/26/18 at 1:24am:


I did cut a root out at the Tamale loop at SWDP, but it was out of anger and resentment.  Angry



Wait ... I may know which one you're talking about.  And since i ride out there when it's damp, I've only cleared it 1 out of 6 times.  And yes, i do remember the tally.
  
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Re: Erosion
Reply #19 - 06/26/18 at 1:31pm
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The root
The challenge
The opportunity 
The video evidence

Your trail building & maintenance contribution rule, all is forgiven 

Come ride Mulberry Gap
  
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