I've found the black bibs have a very good fit for a very good price (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links) But I'm hip to the winter knickers. They don't have the same fit as the regular shorts. Something about the brushed inside fabric. You can pull it tight, but it seems to slip down. I really like the knickers though. And have put up with the slipping. I don't know why folks don't do this anymore, but wear pair of tights over your bibs. Shoot,you can find all sort of sales on unpadded tights. It used to be if you got too warm, you could just remove the tights. Sorry about a reply a couple of messages ago. I thought it was another homophobic thing about wearing tights . The only thing I think baggies are good for, is pockets if your wearing a tee shirt. But there baggies really tight now without pockets. 

I have a friend from spain, who would not give up his wool shorts for years. He even started to safety pin them to his Jersey to keep them from falling down. I think after his wool jerseys started to get stretched beyound belife, he decided he needed something new. I have a friend who does private orders for Marino wool jerseys. They are really nice, but pricy, since he doesn't do bulk orders any more. As soon as I lose some weight, I'll start wearing them again. But I have three and they will be in my collection forever

I've seen some mountain bike films of riding in the mountains along the coast of Italy. I want to go. Never knew they have such good mountain biking