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Good article in Pinkbike
06/05/14 at 5:28pm
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So this will likely stir up some spirited conversation and likely bring some criticism to the club in general but it bears talking about it.  

I'd like to preface by saying that we as a club have no desire or care to construct all beginner trails nor neuter/dumb down our existing ones.  We strive to create riding experiences for all ages, skill levels and riding styles.  Some are not always easy or feasible and we always have to take risk management and land managers' tolerances when we try to push the limits.  BYT and Beatty are perfect examples of our success in that endeavor and we strive for more.

So without further ado....

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Re: Good article in Pinkbike
Reply #1 - 06/05/14 at 7:40pm
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+1.
  
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Re: Good article in Pinkbike
Reply #2 - 06/05/14 at 8:45pm
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  While I agree with 90% of what the author wrote I don't agree with all of it. MTBing is an ever evolving sport. There is no bible or constitution stating what it should or should not be. Everyone has their opinion of what a MTBing trail should be. I often hear people say MTBing was meant to be this way or that and it just a self fulfilling fantasy. We are fortunate to have the variety of trails that we do have. 
   I do not believe we purposely  build beginner trails nor do we turn them into beginner trails. Beatty is the only trail I can recall that was built to be beginner friendly. Park&Rec ask that the main loop be built to be beginner friendly and we did. The overall trail has most defiantly changed from the grand opening. 
   I think our clubs main mission is to build trails that are as sustainable as we can. If that means doing a lot of the building with a mini excavator because there's not enough warm body's to do the work by hand then so be it. It's not meant to dumb the trail down but it does end up looking that way. If that means chopping out roots to keep the line narrow then so be it. I have cut out a ton of roots over the years for that reason and to redirect water flow. I like trails to be as natural as we can make them. Backyard and Rocky River Trail are prime examples. I know as that trail evolves roots will be removed in areas not to make it easier but to keep people on line and the trail in shape.   
   I know I'm rambling on here but I enjoy riding the fast and flowing trails of Sherman and LNSP as much as the challenging rocky, rooty and ball busting climbing on my favorite trail Rocky River. All of our trails have their own feel and I think we as a club are on the right path.    
Doug S.
  
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Re: Good article in Pinkbike
Reply #3 - 06/06/14 at 7:32pm
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I think it’s good for there to be a balance. It’s really not for me or for anyone else to say what mountain biking should or should not be. Just because something doesn’t appeal to me, doesn’t mean that it’s wrong. So personally I like difficult, technical trails. Even though I can’t always ride the difficult, technical stuff I enjoy the challenge of attempting to ride it. And I can hike the heck out of my bike – even for hours if need be lol. I got interested and intrigued by mountain biking because it was hard. I don’t want it to be easy.  When I go to a trail and can ride everything there, I get bored quickly. But some people may really enjoy just being able to flow along on a trail and not have to think about it too much. And that’s cool for them. So some flowy is good and some techy is good – just don’t make everything flowy because then I will be sad.  Cool
  
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Re: Good article in Pinkbike
Reply #4 - 06/06/14 at 7:51pm
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i don't understand why mountain bikers feel the need to be so exclusive.  whatever so i'm not sending 50+ foot drops or doing backflips off the gravity cavity but i should still be able to enjoy your trails.  this just sounds like some guy saying he's better than everyone and new riders arent welcome in his parts
  
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Re: Good article in Pinkbike
Reply #5 - 06/07/14 at 1:09am
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I think we have a great balance here in the Charlotte area. It's an area where beginners can find a trail or two to learn to ride over roots and maneuver a few rocks, and the more advanced (in skills or conditioning) have RRT, BYT and so forth. We don't really have much beyond these because we generally don't have the terrain to make it. So a person can progress from rank beginner to a relatively strong, skilled biker within a short drive. Perfect balance IMHO. The whole trail system shouldn't be built for any particular preference to the exclusion of others.
  
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Re: Good article in Pinkbike
Reply #6 - 06/07/14 at 3:24am
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Mountain biking should be hard...

there that was easy  Smiley

Im not a fan of the attitude "its hard for me so lets fix it so I can ride it"

I see/hear that alot from folks out on the trail. stuff like "man, those roots are rough, we need to chop them out", or "thats a hard climb, wish someone would build a go-around". 

TBH it irks me. CatsRuleTN nailed it. She is a great rider but still has to walk somethings (although less and less the more she rides the mtns.) People should appreciate the challenge, not avoid it or fight against it. 

Its great that anyone with $3k can go and buy a super bike but dont blame the trail/builders if its hard to clean a section they built...

I dont think every trail should be Farlow Gap but if making the rooty climbs on Randy's Section at Beatty is hard...its because its supposed to be.

Keep riding...progressing...getting stronger...your mind and body will thank you
« Last Edit: 06/07/14 at 3:32am by Banjopickin »  
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Re: Good article in Pinkbike
Reply #7 - 06/07/14 at 2:26pm
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And please quite whining about the dang roots!  It's a dirt path! In the woods!  With trees! And they have  roots!

Back in the day we were all riding 26" rigid Speccy's, Schwinns, Treks, Giants, Litespeeds, add nauseum.  Think it's hard now with your 100mm travel 29'er?

In the immortal words of slayemf...

RIDE A BIKE!!!!
  
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Re: Good article in Pinkbike
Reply #8 - 06/07/14 at 7:29pm
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If a section of the trail is too hard for you, be it an uphill section that you can't quite make it up, or a rock garden you can't go through clean, get off your bike and walk it.
  
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Re: Good article in Pinkbike
Reply #9 - 06/13/14 at 10:04am
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Seems that the need for trail difficulty is offset by the need for dual suspension 29ers.  If you ride 4 or 5 inch full suspension it is hard to make a trail east of the mountains that is challenging.
  
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Re: Good article in Pinkbike
Reply #10 - 06/13/14 at 10:18am
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I think the article was pretty accurate. I do wonder though how well received it would be if on the new section I'm building at RRT I left a couple spots that even the most seasoned riders would only clear maybe 30%-40% of the time. I think I might hear a different tune. Roll Eyes Just Sayin IF
  
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Re: Good article in Pinkbike
Reply #11 - 06/13/14 at 12:00pm
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Do it I dare you....actually please do. Only question is it uphill or downhill.
  
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Re: Good article in Pinkbike
Reply #12 - 06/13/14 at 1:05pm
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MTBman1127 wrote on 06/13/14 at 12:00pm:
Do it I dare you....actually please do. Only question is it uphill or downhill.

There is no downhill at Steves
  
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Re: Good article in Pinkbike
Reply #13 - 06/13/14 at 1:28pm
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Any tech is always welcomed in the Area... Steve, I think you'd find it that there are more of those that would appreciate it than you think.  Else, there's always sherman (Which I love also).  Anything to challenge/improve skills/technique is always welcomed in my book.  Go for it!  The more the merrier.
  
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Re: Good article in Pinkbike
Reply #14 - 06/13/14 at 1:59pm
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I think the article comes off as smug and naive.  Big picture, if we didn't have beginners and beginner trails in the sport, there wouldn't be a sport to talk about in the first place.  We all needed those beginner trails to get where we are today, why would we want to take that away from the next generation.   

But I don't think I need to explain it more than that since most folks in this thread seem to get it.

As far as the THTB and Charlotte MTB specifically, one thing I always notice when I travel is how awesome the trail variety and quality is for a "big" city here in Charlotte.  We have it good here.  For example, if you live in South Clt and you're just starting out: Beatty -> Sherm -> Springs -> WWC -> RRT : perfect progression, perfect variety, all within 30 miles... can't ask for much more than that!
  
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Re: Good article in Pinkbike
Reply #15 - 06/13/14 at 2:55pm
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Watcher wrote on 06/13/14 at 10:18am:
I think the article was pretty accurate. I do wonder though how well received it would be if on the new section I'm building at RRT I left a couple spots that even the most seasoned riders would only clear maybe 30%-40% of the time. I think I might hear a different tune. Roll Eyes Just Sayin IF

I'm all for it, but I humbly request (ala like Poplar Tent) put an alternate line that people can clear 100% of the time for the days that some are not willing to risk the penalty for failure.  I cut my teeth at PT and loved that I could take the tough option if I wanted, or just keep pedaling around if I wasn't feeling it, and kept the flow going without hopping off my bike.

And, in reference to the article, I'm in favor of tough and "skills versatile" trails, much like PT was and all the options at Fisher.  Not a fan of dumbing down a trail.
  
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Re: Good article in Pinkbike
Reply #16 - 06/13/14 at 3:05pm
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I think the article wasn't getting at there should be no beginner trails ever but more that the current style of trail that is being built is a manicured highway for all intensive purposes.  I find it like the Warrior Creek Trail system. Its fun don't get me wrong but it would kill my soul to ride there day in and day out. The only challenge is to go faster aerobically and for some that is not why we ride a bike. 

On the same page my favorite trail is Farlow Gap. It has enough scary on it to keep me on my toes and to concentrate on what I am doing on a bike not just ride through the woods. With this I can't say I would want to ride it everyday but it at least wouldn't kill my inner mountain biker to do so. 

That being said lets just make everything like Bennet Gap and Hickory Knob. Those I could ride everyday and be a happy person. (will hold judgment to what was done at the bottom till I ride it)
  
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Re: Good article in Pinkbike
Reply #17 - 06/13/14 at 4:13pm
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MTBman1127 wrote on 06/13/14 at 3:05pm:
I think the article wasn't getting at there should be no beginner trails ever but more that the current style of trail that is being built is a manicured highway for all intensive purposes.  I find it like the Warrior Creek Trail system. Its fun don't get me wrong but it would kill my soul to ride there day in and day out. The only challenge is to go faster aerobically and for some that is not why we ride a bike. 

On the same page my favorite trail is Farlow Gap. It has enough scary on it to keep me on my toes and to concentrate on what I am doing on a bike not just ride through the woods. With this I can't say I would want to ride it everyday but it at least wouldn't kill my inner mountain biker to do so. 

That being said lets just make everything like Bennet Gap and Hickory Knob. Those I could ride everyday and be a happy person. (will hold judgment to what was done at the bottom till I ride it)


Couldnt agree more.

Seems the direction of trail building has headed toward more smooth flow and less tech gnar. You gotta have something for everyone though... We were all beginners at some point...

As far as local trails, there are plenty of opportunities to get your feet wet on mountain bike. You could ride a half dozen beginner trails within 30 minutes of uptown but if you really want a challenge physically and skill wise you pretty much have to go to the mountains. RRT is arguably the best trail in the area for more advanced riding (hard climbs, technical sections, fast descents, and variation of terrain) but it isnt what I would call "technical". Technical to me is upper Black mtn, Farlow, and other steep, blown out trail that is a bear to ride both up and down.

Hard if not impossible to come close to replicating that in Charlotte.

I would like to see some high and low speed stupid technical sections at RRT. That would come close to making it a near perfect trail. Its fun when you cant clean certain sections. Thats what keeps you coming back, hopefilly Smiley


  
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Advocat wrote on 08/22/13 at 5:16pm:
...packin some Chub in the back of the pick-up.


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Re: Good article in Pinkbike
Reply #18 - 06/13/14 at 8:31pm
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Somebody hit on this briefly, but it is an interesting time right now as trail building standards are changing but the bikes are changing even faster. In the 6 or so short years that I've been mountain biking I've seen hardtail 26ers basically completely die out and my bike (which I still love and will probably never get rid of) become a high-end dinosaur. The vast majority of bikes I see on every trail now are FS 29ers. With cushier more efficient bikes combined with an increase in machine-built sections, berms, etc, (which ironically tend to feel made for my bike) I can see how the sentiment that trails are getting too beginner-oriented can spread, but I'm just not seeing some conspiratorial campaign to dumb down trails.

I'm very against "dumbing down" where it actually happens, BUT I don't understand the vitriol against go-arounds or alternate options. It seems like a win-win to me when beginners can still ride most of a trail and not necessarily have to walk up or fall off features or terrain that would probably be more sustainable if it were only being ridden by people who truly wanted to.
  
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Re: Good article in Pinkbike
Reply #19 - 06/13/14 at 10:01pm
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nonillogical wrote on 06/13/14 at 8:31pm:
... BUT I don't understand the vitriol against go-arounds or alternate options. It seems like a win-win to me when beginners can still ride most of a trail and not necessarily have to walk up or fall off features or terrain that would probably be more sustainable if it were only being ridden by people who truly wanted to.



This has always been somewhat of a mystery to me as well.  Seems like it would be better from a liability standpoint as well to have go-arounds.
  
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