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TUBELESS (Read 4091 times)

The Cycle Path IB Room In The Loop Project Board Offline Treasurer '11 to '18. Trail Chair '12-'18, '20-'21 Posts: 11858 Location: Lake Norman Joined: 08/04/03	Re: TUBELESS Reply #20 - 10/18/16 at 1:21am	Print Post
	ChosenOne wrote on 10/18/16 at 12:16am: Yep.. It's a fad. When OEMs start selling off-the-shelf tubeless it will no longer be a fad. Until then it's a fad.... the benefits of which are marginal if weight savings is not a key goal. Specialized has been doing that for about 3 or 4 years now on most of their FS bikes. They send it with a tube and supply the valve stem. Rim strip for tubeless is already installed. It's honestly one of the easiest tubeless setups I've seen. Take the tube out, install the valve stem, add sealant and inflate.

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The Cycle Path IB Room In The Loop Project Board Offline Treasurer '11 to '18. Trail Chair '12-'18, '20-'21 Posts: 11858 Location: Lake Norman Joined: 08/04/03	Re: TUBELESS Reply #21 - 10/18/16 at 1:22am	Print Post
	ChosenOne wrote on 10/18/16 at 12:47am: Sry,.. I dont want to appear to be on a crusade... I am just trying to bump mypost count NOT You gotta a looooooong way to go.

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ChosenOne Little Ring Offline Posts: 600 Joined: 11/02/08	Re: TUBELESS Reply #22 - 10/18/16 at 1:40am	Print Post
	The Cycle Path wrote on 10/18/16 at 1:21am: Specialized has been doing that for about 3 or 4 years now on most of their FS bikes. They send it with a tube and supply the valve stem. Rim strip for tubeless is already installed. It's honestly one of the easiest tubeless setups I've seen. Take the tube out, install the valve stem, add sealant and inflate. That's not what I'm talking about... when the OEMs stop shipping w/ a tube then it's full on mainstream. There is a reason why theyr ship w/ an inner tube.

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Tom F In The Loop Offline I'm ready. Get the bike. Posts: 2028 Location: Can-of-pooless, NC Joined: 08/06/10	Re: TUBELESS Reply #23 - 10/18/16 at 2:13am	Print Post
	ChosenOne wrote on 10/18/16 at 1:40am: That's not what I'm talking about... when the OEMs stop shipping w/ a tube then it's full on mainstream. There is a reason why theyr ship w/ an inner tube. Santa Cruz ships tubeless.

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OoHoO Little Ring Offline Gnar...Gnar...Gnar.. Posts: 696 Location: Charlotte Joined: 08/21/13	Re: TUBELESS Reply #24 - 10/18/16 at 2:56am	Print Post
	Tom F wrote on 10/18/16 at 2:13am: Santa Cruz ships tubeless. Point...for the win...

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DK Small Cog Offline Work Ride Tarheel Trailblazers Posts: 348 Joined: 11/21/14	Re: TUBELESS Reply #25 - 10/18/16 at 12:39pm	Print Post
	Tom F wrote on 10/18/16 at 2:13am: Santa Cruz ships tubeless. I was just gonna say.... My Tallboy came full tubeless and I love it. Maxxis Ikon tires running about 19 psi and I have yet to have an issue after about 650 miles on that setup.

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Yellowduck Big Ring Offline Work Ride Tarheel Trailblazers Posts: 1537 Location: Concord Joined: 04/28/10	Re: TUBELESS Reply #26 - 10/18/16 at 1:32pm	Print Post
	I've been tubeless for 5 years or so. Only issue I had was with 1 cyclocross tire that would not seal. I've used tubeless ready tires and non tubeless tires. Never a problem. The sealent plugs a good size hole if you happen to get one. One problem I see a lot with people new to tubeless is that they don't get the tire on the bead all the way. I've had some tires to have to pop twice on each side instead of once. Usually there is a line or a mark on the tire to tell if it is beaded all the way. It can be part of the way on the bead and still hold air.

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TINman Coaster Bike Offline Posts: 96 Location: Matthews, NC Joined: 04/06/15	Re: TUBELESS Reply #27 - 10/18/16 at 2:50pm	Print Post
	Yellowduck wrote on 10/18/16 at 1:32pm: I've been tubeless for 5 years or so. Only issue I had was with 1 cyclocross tire that would not seal. I've used tubeless ready tires and non tubeless tires. Never a problem. The sealent plugs a good size hole if you happen to get one. One problem I see a lot with people new to tubeless is that they don't get the tire on the bead all the way. I've had some tires to have to pop twice on each side instead of once. Usually there is a line or a mark on the tire to tell if it is beaded all the way. It can be part of the way on the bead and still hold air. That's what I have seen too and for that reason, I initially pump mine up to 50 psi and give them a short ride around the block with plenty of bunny hops. When I get back, I drop them down to my normal riding pressure.
	« Last Edit: 10/18/16 at 2:51pm by TINman »
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StevenA Coaster Bike Offline Posts: 162 Joined: 06/28/16	Re: TUBELESS Reply #28 - 10/19/16 at 2:44am	Print Post
	Marlingreen wrote on 10/12/16 at 3:30pm: OK...do you really need sealant for tubeless tires? Yes. How else are you going to get the authentic tubeless look without dried sealant all over the rim??

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SirNotAppearing IB Room In The Loop Offline Work Ride Tarheel Trailblazers Posts: 1216 Joined: 03/08/10	Re: TUBELESS Reply #29 - 10/19/16 at 2:05pm	Print Post
	StevenA wrote on 10/19/16 at 2:44am: Yes. How else are you going to get the authentic tubeless look without dried sealant all over the rim?? It's supposed to go inside the rim.

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FredRubble Little Ring Offline Work Ride Tarheel Trailblazers Posts: 509 Location: Mineral Springs Joined: 05/28/14	Re: TUBELESS Reply #30 - 10/19/16 at 8:37pm	Print Post
	ChosenOne wrote on 10/18/16 at 1:40am: That's not what I'm talking about... when the OEMs stop shipping w/ a tube then it's full on mainstream. There is a reason why theyr ship w/ an inner tube. Its o.k. to admit you are wrong... That's when growth happens...

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IntheBush Big Ring Offline Posts: 2031 Location: South of the border Joined: 10/30/09	Re: TUBELESS Reply #31 - 10/19/16 at 10:48pm	Print Post
	StevenA wrote on 10/19/16 at 2:44am: Yes. How else are you going to get the authentic tubeless look without dried sealant all over the rim?? Yeah it's easy.. Just pour it inside the tire before you mount it, then air it up.
	« Last Edit: 10/19/16 at 10:56pm by IntheBush »
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ChosenOne Little Ring Offline Posts: 600 Joined: 11/02/08	Re: TUBELESS Reply #32 - 10/19/16 at 10:52pm	Print Post
	FredRubble wrote on 10/19/16 at 8:37pm: Its o.k. to admit you are wrong... That's when growth happens... I'm not wrong... One or three OEMs do not qualify as a standard. When every bicycle is sold w/o inner tubes, just as is the case with automobiles, it will be the standard. Until then I'll consider it a fad. With the right tubeless-tire and tubeless-rim tubeless is an OK setup. It is nothing that I would purposefully seek as an upgrade if I didn't have the right parts... I wouldn't change wheels just for a tubeless setup. Most tires have very light casings which lowers weight but causes the tire to roll under heavy cornering when the pressures are around 20PSI. If I run a tube that roll is much less pronounced. If I pinch flat the tire pressure was too low and being tubeless doesn't change that it only ensures rim damage from repeated low tire pressure induced blows to roots and rocks. In any event back to the OP... w/ the correct wheel/tire setup you shouldn't need any sealant whatsoever. Cars don't

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IntheBush Big Ring Offline Posts: 2031 Location: South of the border Joined: 10/30/09	Re: TUBELESS Reply #33 - 10/19/16 at 11:16pm	Print Post
	ChosenOne wrote on 10/19/16 at 10:52pm: I'm not wrong... One or three OEMs do not qualify as a standard. When every bicycle is sold w/o inner tubes, just as is the case with automobiles, it will be the standard. Until then I'll consider it a fad. With the right tubeless-tire and tubeless-rim tubeless is an OK setup. It is nothing that I would purposefully seek as an upgrade if I didn't have the right parts... I wouldn't change wheels just for a tubeless setup. Most tires have very light casings which lowers weight but causes the tire to roll under heavy cornering when the pressures are around 20PSI. If I run a tube that roll is much less pronounced. If I pinch flat the tire pressure was too low and being tubeless doesn't change that it only ensures rim damage from repeated low tire pressure induced blows to roots and rocks. In any event back to the OP... w/ the correct wheel/tire setup you shouldn't need any sealant whatsoever. Cars don't I agree with a lot of this. The cost benefit of the upgrade isn't enough for most riders unless you already have compatible equipment. Is it the future? Yep. Like so many other things. Something else to buy to be a real mountain biker.. My tubeless tires work great. But so did my tubed tires. Can I tell a difference? Not much. Never had a pinch flat, because I run recommended pressures. I only run about 5 psi difference with tubeless and of course I'm saving the difference in the weight of the tubes and the sealant. You want to run 15-20 psi in your tires, then expect your rims to take hits. Not necessarily a bad thing if your sponsored and somebody else is replacing your stuff after every race. Sealant in bike tires is to seal punctures or to help seal your ghetto setup. Cars don't normally use sealant because weight's not an issue. They have steel belts.

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Banjopickin Big Ring Offline Spinnin' knees & Hittin' trees since '85 Posts: 1805 Location: Pisgah National Forest, USA Joined: 08/01/11	Re: TUBELESS Reply #34 - 10/20/16 at 12:00am	Print Post
	Been toobless for over 5 years or so and after doing "ghetto toobless", UST, and now TR setups there is not much difference of going toobless v toobed.. But if your are serious about riding and want you bike to perform its best, being able to run low pressure and avoid pinch flats is critical. Your tires connect you to the trail. They're super important. Confidence on descents, cornering ability, traction on climbs etc. (or lack there of) all make you either slow or fast... Running low pressure helps. No denying it. If you're a casual rider and get out once or twice a week and mtn biking itsnt your main thing no need to worry about it. Just go ride. I would STRONGLY advise using sealant for toobless. There's no good reason not to. And toobless isn't a standard. There are no "standards" in cycling. Not anymore haha

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ChosenOne Little Ring Offline Posts: 600 Joined: 11/02/08	Re: TUBELESS Reply #35 - 10/20/16 at 12:21am	Print Post
	IntheBush wrote on 10/19/16 at 11:16pm: I agree with a lot of this. The cost benefit of the upgrade isn't enough for most riders unless you already have compatible equipment. Is it the future? Yep. Like so many other things. Something else to buy to be a real mountain biker.. My tubeless tires work great. But so did my tubed tires. Can I tell a difference? Not much. Never had a pinch flat, because I run recommended pressures. I only run about 5 psi difference with tubeless and of course I'm saving the difference in the weight of the tubes and the sealant. You want to run 15-20 psi in your tires, then expect your rims to take hits. Not necessarily a bad thing if your sponsored and somebody else is replacing your stuff after every race. Sealant in bike tires is to seal punctures or to help seal your ghetto setup. Cars don't normally use sealant because weight's not an issue. They have steel belts. Kevlar > steel belts for puncture resistance. Tubed or tubeless... if you want to run low pressure you need a tire & wheel combo that suits your riding style and works together. I run the following setups all w/ tubes: - WTB Weirwolf 2.3 AM/TCS on Mavic Cross Max ST 26" 22-25 PSI - WTB Weirwolf 2.3 AM/TCS on Transition Revolution 32 26" 25-30 PSI (hard tail) - WTB Weirwolf 2.3 AM/TCS on WTB STp 123 29" 20-30 PSI - This combo holds a bead like no other I hadve ridden. I would have no issues running a full tubeless setup on this bike.
	« Last Edit: 10/20/16 at 12:24am by ChosenOne »
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IntheBush Big Ring Offline Posts: 2031 Location: South of the border Joined: 10/30/09	Re: TUBELESS Reply #36 - 10/20/16 at 3:57am	Print Post
	Whatever floats your boat. I recently converted my 27.5 hardtail to tubeless. Works fine and it does save a number of ounces w/o the tubes. But I have to admit, I do find myself squeezing the tires checking the air pressure a little more often. I run a fairly aggressive 2.25 tire front and rear. I'm a 180 lb. rider, mostly xc, and appreciate the decreased rolling resistance and cushion of slightly higher pressures. Although, if I was a regular at Beatty I might change my mind. I can say one thing for sure. I definitely don't need to ride any faster. Here I am at Sherman; (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links) Seriously, on this run he finished second to last.
	« Last Edit: 10/20/16 at 10:11am by IntheBush »
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KevinB Little Ring Offline Posts: 752 Location: Mocksville Joined: 05/16/09	Re: TUBELESS Reply #37 - 10/20/16 at 11:59am	Print Post
	IntheBush wrote on 10/20/16 at 3:57am: Seriously, on this run he finished second to last. Prob cause he was running tubes.

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IntheBush Big Ring Offline Posts: 2031 Location: South of the border Joined: 10/30/09	Re: TUBELESS Reply #38 - 10/20/16 at 12:47pm	Print Post
	I doubt it. But I can guarantee you one thing. If I'm comparing myself to that... Running tubes or not and a few psi aint gonna make much of a difference. I've got a healthy survival instinct.
	« Last Edit: 10/20/16 at 12:49pm by IntheBush »
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BudLeach Small Cog Offline Posts: 394 Location: Gastonia Joined: 09/09/14	Re: TUBELESS Reply #39 - 10/20/16 at 1:04pm	Print Post
	ChosenOne wrote on 10/19/16 at 10:52pm: Most tires have very light casings which lowers weight but causes the tire to roll under heavy cornering when the pressures are around 20PSI. If I run a tube that roll is much less pronounced. Tubed or tubeless... if you want to run low pressure you need a tire & wheel combo that suits your riding style and works together. I wouldn't say MOST tires have very light casings. But if you are going tubeless primarily for the weight savings, and therefore decide to go with the lightest "tubeless ready" casing you can find, the bike will feel squirmy compared to a tube setup. Especially at low pressures and with narrower rims. I have made this mistake before. Your last point is key. I run tubeless, but I have learned that I need to run a slightly heavier casing (Schwalbe SnakeSkin, Maxxis EXO) than I otherwise would. That is fine with me because my reasons for running tubeless (in order of importance) are as follows. 1. Prevent small punctures (thorns and such) from ruining my ride. 2. Benefits of lower pressures without risk of snake bite ruining my ride. 3. Because it is rad. (all the cool kids are doing it...) 4. Rotational weight savings.

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