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2017 Winter Short Track
12/15/16 at 5:16pm
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Dates and registration are open. We made a lot of changes and improvements to the short rack course to increase fun in the woods and showcase what the THTB can do. Go check out the trail prior too because of these changes. We also have a few more improvements we are working on now too, which should be completed prior to the series (roller berms/pump rhythm section). 

IF you have thought about racing mtbs but not sure what to expect, this series is a great intro to racing. I think Neal will also be holding a MTB Racing 101 course the week prior.
  
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Re: 2017 Winter Short Track
Reply #1 - 12/15/16 at 6:37pm
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I see that registration opens at 9am, but can anyone tell me when the races actually start?
  
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Re: 2017 Winter Short Track
Reply #2 - 12/15/16 at 7:04pm
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flynbryan19 wrote on 12/15/16 at 6:37pm:
I see that registration opens at 9am, but can anyone tell me when the races actually start?


Here you go.  (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
  
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Re: 2017 Winter Short Track
Reply #3 - 12/16/16 at 1:18pm
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Yellowduck wrote on 12/15/16 at 7:04pm:


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Sorry.  I need to internet harder.... lol thanks.
  
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Re: 2017 Winter Short Track
Reply #4 - 12/16/16 at 4:49pm
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woot woot! looking forward to this!
  
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Re: 2017 Winter Short Track
Reply #5 - 12/16/16 at 5:11pm
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pearl wrote on 12/16/16 at 4:49pm:
woot woot! looking forward to this!


+1!
  
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Re: 2017 Winter Short Track
Reply #6 - 12/16/16 at 5:52pm
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pearl wrote on 12/16/16 at 4:49pm:
woot woot! looking forward to this!


+2

Hoping to make a couple of these Lord willing.
  
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Re: 2017 Winter Short Track
Reply #7 - 12/23/16 at 2:52am
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If I am over 50 ,which would do me better. Over 40 beginner  or masters ? I'm not sure if that masters is,for experienced riders or not . Thanks
  
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Re: 2017 Winter Short Track
Reply #8 - 12/23/16 at 7:24am
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If you are a beginner, the 40+ beginner race would be a good place to start.  There will still be some fairly speedy racers.  The masters 50+ race is a little longer, at 40 vs 30 minutes.  There will be some quick 50+ racers!  So it would be more challenging.  Also, you can do both... Smiley
  
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Re: 2017 Winter Short Track
Reply #9 - 12/26/16 at 12:44pm
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Went out there the other day.  Wow such a better track!  Love the line options and possible passing points in the woods now.
« Last Edit: 12/26/16 at 12:44pm by 49erRider »  
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Re: 2017 Winter Short Track
Reply #10 - 12/29/16 at 8:36pm
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I've been riding for years but haven't had a chance to try out racing until this year. Anyone got some tips for a first timer? I'm going to register for the beginner mens 18-29 category.
  
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Re: 2017 Winter Short Track
Reply #11 - 12/29/16 at 10:05pm
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TheDoomer wrote on 12/29/16 at 8:36pm:
I've been riding for years but haven't had a chance to try out racing until this year. Anyone got some tips for a first timer? I'm going to register for the beginner mens 18-29 category.


Ride your own race. 30 minutes is longer then you think when your going all out.

Call your passes and/or communicate with those passing you so it can go as cleanly as possible

Have fun, or really what's the point!!!   
  
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Re: 2017 Winter Short Track
Reply #12 - 12/30/16 at 5:16pm
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Quote:
I've been riding for years but haven't had a chance to try out racing until this year. Anyone got some tips for a first timer? I'm going to register for the beginner mens 18-29 category.


I've only done two races, but had fun and learned a lot.

Don't be surprised if you think you're going to die halfway through, but don't give up - finish!

Try to ride a pace you can ride for the duration once the herd levels out some after the first lap or so.

Be prepared to get smoked, but do your best.

Be ready to race two races, and look for improvement in your personal results.

Have fun with it.
  
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Re: 2017 Winter Short Track
Reply #13 - 12/30/16 at 7:59pm
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Quote:


Don't be surprised if you think you're going to die halfway through, but don't give up - finish!


Have fun with it.


Good advice right there.  I always feel like I'm going to die in the short track, or any xc race for that matter.  But it always feels sooooo good to cross that finish line.  Being exhausted helps make that 1st beer kick a little harder too  Wink .  But don't drink at the public park  Shocked
« Last Edit: 12/30/16 at 8:00pm by TrillWill »  
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Re: 2017 Winter Short Track
Reply #14 - 12/31/16 at 7:18pm
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Thanks for the tips. I was also considering the race coming up at the whitewater center but I have a feeling that's too intense for a first race.

I'm going to go for a ride now and see what 30 minutes of all-out really feels like. Usually when I ride I switch between a few minutes of all-out followed by some lazy coasting...

Hopefully a legit race will check my ego a bit too  Wink
  
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Re: 2017 Winter Short Track
Reply #15 - 01/18/17 at 2:02am
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Re: 2017 Winter Short Track
Reply #16 - 01/19/17 at 8:38pm
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TheDoomer wrote on 12/31/16 at 7:18pm:
Thanks for the tips. I was also considering the race coming up at the whitewater center but I have a feeling that's too intense for a first race.

I'm going to go for a ride now and see what 30 minutes of all-out really feels like. Usually when I ride I switch between a few minutes of all-out followed by some lazy coasting...

Hopefully a legit race will check my ego a bit too  Wink


These short track races are actually more intense than a regular XC race, its so fast for such a short period of time... Just to be honest!
  
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Re: 2017 Winter Short Track
Reply #17 - 01/19/17 at 11:13pm
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When Mike King shows up just give him the trophy and the prizes for the season,,,my money is on him,,,him and Will Murray..
  
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Re: 2017 Winter Short Track
Reply #18 - 01/20/17 at 12:46am
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I Hope the weather changes for Sunday
  
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Re: 2017 Winter Short Track
Reply #19 - 01/20/17 at 8:15pm
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pearl wrote on 01/19/17 at 8:38pm:


These short track races are actually more intense than a regular XC race, its so fast for such a short period of time... Just to be honest!
is

This is true, one pace and that is all out.  Much like a cross race...
  
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Re: 2017 Winter Short Track
Reply #20 - 01/22/17 at 11:16pm
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course held up pretty damn good! the carpets help for sure Smiley had a awesome 3 way battle in the SS category, looking forward to next week already. just started uploading lap 1 video.. ill link it when its done!
  
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Re: 2017 Winter Short Track
Reply #21 - 01/22/17 at 11:31pm
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Meh, shut up already. 

J/k- good job!  And yes, the trail was in great shape, IMHO
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Yeah, to the best of my knowledge:)
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Re: 2017 Winter Short Track
Reply #22 - 01/23/17 at 12:10am
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You top 3 were rolling. Good job man.
  
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Re: 2017 Winter Short Track
Reply #23 - 01/23/17 at 12:18am
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On another note. Kids turnout was nice, 50 juniors racing
  
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Re: 2017 Winter Short Track
Reply #24 - 01/23/17 at 12:42am
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Thanks! Here was one lap:

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Re: 2017 Winter Short Track
Reply #25 - 01/23/17 at 1:22am
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Asian missle off the front...
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Re: 2017 Winter Short Track
Reply #26 - 01/23/17 at 1:49am
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that is how you ride a bike Boyz and Galz,,,,,killin it..Single Speed Assasin,,,yes,,RAMFB....
  
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Re: 2017 Winter Short Track
Reply #27 - 01/24/17 at 3:19am
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Nice Video Pearl...you guys were haul'n ass. We were really happy and proud the trail held up like it did given the amount of rain and riders it has seen the past two weeks leading up to the first race. Since most of the hard work is unseen and specific to keeping the water off the trail, this was a good feeling. 

So this is a loaded question, but i am going to ask it each week. What can we make better? It can be something to make the trail harder, easier, more fun, less fun, more air, less air etc. Would you like more single track? More gravel? what ever, let me know your thoughts. 

I want to get everyone's input while its fresh on your mind so that when you go to make changes next year, it is with your feedback and racing input in mind.
  
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Re: 2017 Winter Short Track
Reply #28 - 01/24/17 at 2:47pm
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Wears my bike wrote on 01/24/17 at 3:19am:
Nice Video Pearl...you guys were haul'n ass. We were really happy and proud the trail held up like it did given the amount of rain and riders it has seen the past two weeks leading up to the first race. Since most of the hard work is unseen and specific to keeping the water off the trail, this was a good feeling. 

So this is a loaded question, but i am going to ask it each week. What can we make better? It can be something to make the trail harder, easier, more fun, less fun, more air, less air etc. Would you like more single track? More gravel? what ever, let me know your thoughts. 

I want to get everyone's input while its fresh on your mind so that when you go to make changes next year, it is with your feedback and racing input in mind.


Thank you! Amazing how well the course is built to shed that much water. Even where it was mucky, it was not as bad as I would imagine it to be. Great trail building for sure!

Yes, this is a loaded question; You guys have this event down pat, the trail works great, it's awesome to rip, the berms, everything. A+. If you didn't change a thing I would still be attending every race (as long as it isn't raining sideways and the baby sleeps well the night before).

I love the new section that was added as well!

One thing I would love to see is another place or two to pass. With such a solid built in trail that sheds rain, it's hard to make this happen. In reality, you have to ask to pass once you get into the ST. Since it is so fast, you really cannot make a pass without going off into the woods. Part of the "problem" is that the ST is downhill and really fast (not complaining), so the ST is really a section to recover. You also do not want to make this existing trail super duper wide to allow for passing, so it's a tough place to be in for sure. 

Back in NJ we did something as simple as this in a slower, boring section:
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One line was straighter and slower, while the other line was longer but faster. Equally as fast, but if one person had more gas over the other, it was a place to make a move.

Stealing from cyclocross, a lap card countdown would be awesome. I'm very aware of my surroundings and situation, but sometimes you're curious how many laps you actually have left and your brain cannot comprehend the sounds as you pass the S/F!

Love the event! Looking forward to next weekend already!

  
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Re: 2017 Winter Short Track
Reply #29 - 01/25/17 at 6:29pm
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oh no, did i say too much  Cry
  
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Re: 2017 Winter Short Track
Reply #30 - 01/25/17 at 7:20pm
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A long time ago...

Never did a race that offered dual lines. I like it. You could modify that idea and do one joker lap per race by cutting out of the woods earlier to add a little strategy. 

Otherwise I like it as it is. Guess I'm not much of a visionary
  
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Yeah, to the best of my knowledge:)
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Re: 2017 Winter Short Track
Reply #31 - 01/25/17 at 7:54pm
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mountainbiker90 wrote on 01/25/17 at 7:20pm:
A long time ago...

Never did a race that offered dual lines. I like it. You could modify that idea and do one joker lap per race by cutting out of the woods earlier to add a little strategy. 

Otherwise I like it as it is. Guess I'm not much of a visionary


I liked the joker idea from those RallyX things, but would be hard to enforce that's for sure!

Picture a shorter, rocky technical section that if you clean it, you could gain a little time, versus a faster, longer section...

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don't blink because you might miss it. around the :28 mark. you can see the different lines. some may be faster, safer, etc.
  
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Re: 2017 Winter Short Track
Reply #32 - 01/25/17 at 8:55pm
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Nope, definitely did not say too much. I am trying to think where a passing line can be added in the woods. I might have an idea but need to walk and see. Also, for next year I might try to add a second downhill area after the first climb. More fun, but it would come with a new climb out taking you back to the road. The new climb might of 1-4 options to get to the road, giving a few options and then drop you out in a place where there is no risk of a high speed collision.  EG: fast direct line has a step up, second line is a rock garden but longer, third line has none of those but takes you our your butt to get back to the road.
  
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Re: 2017 Winter Short Track
Reply #33 - 01/25/17 at 9:01pm
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passing zones have been a issue since day 1. i think the more and longer ones you have the better the racing would be. Even if they were just 2 equal lines with no features, there would be some jockeying on every lap
  
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Re: 2017 Winter Short Track
Reply #34 - 01/25/17 at 9:05pm
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Wears my bike wrote on 01/25/17 at 8:55pm:
Nope, definitely did not say too much. I am trying to think where a passing line can be added in the woods. I might have an idea but need to walk and see. Also, for next year I might try to add a second downhill area after the first climb. More fun, but it would come with a new climb out taking you back to the road. The new climb might of 1-4 options to get to the road, giving a few options and then drop you out in a place where there is no risk of a high speed collision.  EG: fast direct line has a step up, second line is a rock garden but longer, third line has none of those but takes you our your butt to get back to the road.



I could see you dipping back into the woods after a short stint of the gravel and popping back up to the gravel again. Agreed about the high speed collision issue, especially on gravel. If you can make it on dirt, maybe a little softer of a landing Wink

Your example is exactly what I was imagining! When the time comes I would love to help if I could!
  
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Re: 2017 Winter Short Track
Reply #35 - 01/26/17 at 1:18pm
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Had so much fun.  Was really surprised how well the course held up given the amount of rain we had.

I tried passing in the woods in the wide section between the main trail and little jump, but the new part of the trail was so soft it bogged me down.  Passed many lappers in the woods but couldn't have without cooperation.

Really enjoyed it, and do think perhaps one passing spot in the woods would be fun.  Just be careful designing it, or everyone will take "the fast line"

Great work - be back on Sunday!
  
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Re: 2017 Winter Short Track
Reply #36 - 01/26/17 at 6:33pm
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For me anything that adds more singletrack and more technical elements is a good thing! I think it's very much a big power test so I would welcome anything that could give a rider with technical skills an advantage. 

Also if slight variations could be made to the course between races would be great, nothing major but just little changes. I think the series is a lot of fun and I am excited to try the new course this weekend. Any chance it will be open tomorrow?
  
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Re: 2017 Winter Short Track
Reply #37 - 01/26/17 at 8:55pm
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Russell N wrote on 01/26/17 at 6:33pm:
Any chance it will be open tomorrow?


I was out at 12:30 and it was perfect.. Give it a rip!
  
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Re: 2017 Winter Short Track
Reply #38 - 01/26/17 at 9:40pm
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Perfect! I'll be out there tomorrow morning!
  
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Re: 2017 Winter Short Track
Reply #39 - 01/26/17 at 10:42pm
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The short track portion of Renni is "all weather".  It does not close when the single track of Renni is closed.   With that said, a little common sense and courtesy goes a long way.  If you are making ruts or find yourself wondering if the short track should be closed, please do the right thing and get your ride on the pavement.  We have done a lot of work to the trail to make it as weather proof as possible, but we can' trump Mother Nature.
  
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Re: 2017 Winter Short Track
Reply #40 - 01/26/17 at 10:46pm
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Sorry, also meant to add that the single track portion of Renni will be open tomorrow and thank you to everyone for your patience, assistance, compliments on the trail and racing in this series.  We hope you're enjoying what we've done and are looking forward to bringing more fun to this trail!
  
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Re: 2017 Winter Short Track
Reply #41 - 01/27/17 at 3:42am
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If you don't dig hard to make that pavement pass to take position going into the single track, then you can just pace the whole race and just focus on where you're stronger instead of going all out. This is shorttrack, and the course works well. If anything, re-evaluate the start times
  
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Re: 2017 Winter Short Track
Reply #42 - 01/28/17 at 2:00am
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Track runs great!  The kitty litter near the rock drop is deadly, washed out on it today. 

I did sport last year and usually hovered around 10th or so. I'm 208lbs so I think I might try Clydesdale class this time. Is that kosher? 200lbs is the cutoff right? I wasn't sure if there was any unwritten rules or etiquette for the class. 

Looking forward to racing!
  
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Re: 2017 Winter Short Track
Reply #43 - 01/28/17 at 2:54am
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Russell N wrote on 01/28/17 at 2:00am:


I did sport last year and usually hovered around 10th or so. I'm 208lbs so I think I might try Clydesdale class this time. Is that kosher? 200lbs is the cutoff right? I wasn't sure if there was any unwritten rules or etiquette for the class. 



You'll be fine in that class.  See ya out there.
  
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Re: 2017 Winter Short Track
Reply #44 - 01/28/17 at 1:49pm
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Russell N wrote on 01/28/17 at 2:00am:
Track runs great!  The kitty litter near the rock drop is deadly, washed out on it today. 

I did sport last year and usually hovered around 10th or so. I'm 208lbs so I think I might try Clydesdale class this time. Is that kosher? 200lbs is the cutoff right? I wasn't sure if there was any unwritten rules or etiquette for the class. 

Looking forward to racing!



You're good for Clydesdale, just remember to wear knee high white socks.
  
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Re: 2017 Winter Short Track
Reply #45 - 01/30/17 at 2:37pm
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That kitty litter...bit my ass on Sunday in the SS race. Sent me ass over handlebars over the rock when my front wheel washed out. Thankfully no pictures. 

I am thinking of adding a third climbing/passing line prior to the rock drop. During the junior/beginner races there is a huge bottle neck there with riders stacked up behind walkers.
  
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Re: 2017 Winter Short Track
Reply #46 - 01/30/17 at 3:37pm
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Was the new up hill passing line before the rock drop effective?  I hit the lapper pack just before there a couple times but never took it because....I'm blind?  Stubborn?  Stubborn and blind?  It looked soft, steeper and slower every time I went past it thinking "I should have tried that instead of sitting behind these 5 guys."  I guess I'll give it a shot next week if I need to and report back.

A friend in +50 noted it was hard to find places to get out of the way of the single speed guys in the woods.  Wondering if it might be easier to construct a couple spots for folks to move over instead of large passing lanes?
  
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Re: 2017 Winter Short Track
Reply #47 - 01/30/17 at 3:57pm
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I was able to use the line on 2 occasions to pass. One time only passing 1 and the other time 3 in one shot. It hurt more, but it helped me open up a gap to a guy riding my wheel. You definitely have to be aggressive about it, but I find myself taking more risks (withing reason) with lapped traffic knowing i need to let the bike flow as much as possible to recover before the hill. The less pedaling I can do in the woods the better my race. This was during the sport men race. 

During the single speed race i used the passing line to actually let people pass me. I am only racing SS for more saddle time so there is no reason for me to get in the way of those actually going full out. 

I am going to put more gravel down to firm up the passing line and build the third option this week.
  
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Re: 2017 Winter Short Track
Reply #48 - 01/30/17 at 4:32pm
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That steeper section is for sure slower and you would have to really really push it to make a pass in that section. It's more of a spot that if someone is looking to give up a spot or let someone pass, they would go to the left. It isn't easy to make a spot to make the course faster without a bunch of real testing, trial and error, that kind of thing.

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Heres the first two laps of the SS race, plus a lap in the middle with Rich, then Rich throwing down megawatts and ripping his chain off his rear cog. I tried to push him along but he couldn't get it back on Sad
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Re: 2017 Winter Short Track
Reply #49 - 01/30/17 at 6:07pm
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I hit that lane once to pass a lapper but he did have to slow down a little for me to get by him cleanly. It was soft and slow, just like it looked. 

I did get slowed up a few times by a few 50+ but everyone was really cool about trying to get out of the way. I'd probably get mad quickly if that wasn't the case. 

I kinda wish we were out there in our own group. 21 riders in SS was awesome!  Trail was fast. Thanks for all the hard work!
  
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Yeah, to the best of my knowledge:)
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Re: 2017 Winter Short Track
Reply #50 - 01/30/17 at 6:48pm
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Looks like you have to be way faster then whoever you are trying to pass to make that line work.  I had bigger issues between heckle hill and the gravel road.
  
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Re: 2017 Winter Short Track
Reply #51 - 01/30/17 at 8:43pm
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Nice video Pearl, You guys are turning some big gears out there..
Man, Tsui come out off the line fast.
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Re: 2017 Winter Short Track
Reply #52 - 01/30/17 at 9:02pm
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James you and Richard have a good battle going on the last 2 weeks. Lap times are identical.


Heckle hill was pretty good this week!
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Re: 2017 Winter Short Track
Reply #53 - 01/30/17 at 9:19pm
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Thanks guys, Rich is a great guy to battle with! Sucks his equipment let him down Sad

The week before was better, you could hardly hear what people were saying this week... Maybe everyone is just too friendly for my tastes?
  
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Re: 2017 Winter Short Track
Reply #54 - 01/31/17 at 12:36pm
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AMitchell47 wrote on 01/30/17 at 3:37pm:
Was the new up hill passing line before the rock drop effective?  I hit the lapper pack just before there a couple times but never took it because....I'm blind?  Stubborn?  Stubborn and blind?  It looked soft, steeper and slower every time I went past it thinking "I should have tried that instead of sitting behind these 5 guys."  I guess I'll give it a shot next week if I need to and report back.

A friend in +50 noted it was hard to find places to get out of the way of the single speed guys in the woods.  Wondering if it might be easier to construct a couple spots for folks to move over instead of large passing lanes?


I used it twice in Sport 40+. 

If you did your sprint work before the series, you can find the power to pass on that line.
  
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Re: 2017 Winter Short Track
Reply #55 - 01/31/17 at 4:26pm
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Quote:
If you did your sprint work before the series, you can find the power to pass on that line.


This would imply training for the series.  I still need to look into that.
  
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Re: 2017 Winter Short Track
Reply #56 - 02/06/17 at 1:55pm
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The multiple lines before the rock garden worked well this week.  It seemed like the middle one was the firmest, but I used the outside one a couple times and it was fine.  There were four of us at the front of the beginner +40 group riding together and we were able to get by lappers in that section.  Thanks for the hard work, another fun race day.
  
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Re: 2017 Winter Short Track
Reply #57 - 02/06/17 at 4:13pm
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Yes! Loved the options at that section. The middle was faster but you could push the outside one to make the person you were attempting to pass work a little harder. You couldn't just "take it easy" up that section anymore with the threat to pass.

Great work! Thank you Smiley
  
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Re: 2017 Winter Short Track
Reply #58 - 02/06/17 at 5:04pm
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Glad it worked out. I was happy in rained Saturday as it helped it bed in. Spent a lot of time compacting it too, but given it was only a day old for race day, I think it worked out well. Was happy for the Junior too as it eliminated a huge bottle neck for them. 

That is probably a wrap wrap for this years work, so don't expect any new features for the final two races. That said, wait until you see what we have in store for 2018...new "pro line" at the drop garden with a real risk reward (no more rolling the rocks but you have to clean a steeper climb to get to it), rebuild a couple of existing berms, create a new and second "flow zone" similar to the right left "S" turn, new second down hill, and a tech climb feature with multiple options to get back to the road (hard and fast, middle, and easy but long).
  
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Re: 2017 Winter Short Track
Reply #59 - 02/17/17 at 7:15pm
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Great videos, really brings back some fun memories!
  
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Re: 2017 Winter Short Track
Reply #60 - 02/20/17 at 2:49pm
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FINALLY had the chance to run this race last yesterday.  

Neil and crew, you guys did an excellent job with this event.  I talked my son (10yrs old) into racing and my daughter (8yrs) into racing the free race.  They both had a BLAST.  Everyone was so encouraging to the kids (both staff and spectators).  The youth classes also had LARGE turn-out.  It made me hopeful for the future of our sport.  I had a great time as well in my race, but honestly the highlight of the event for me was how much fun my kids had.  Great job to everyone again and we will be back next year for sure!
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