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(Yet Another) Tire Question
04/13/18 at 1:40am
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After more than a thousand miles, Iíve about had it with the purgatory (rear) and butcher (front) that came stock on my Stumpjumper FSR 29. Iíve washed them out more than I would like, and they spin out more than I would like, and theyíre starting to wear and fluid is leeching a bit through the sidewall.

I want to give Maxxis a try, but the possibilities are overwhelming. 

Iím thinking about an Aggressor (2.3) in rear. But Iím not sure what to run up front.

An Ardent 2.4 maybe? Or just run Aggressor front and rear? What Maxcis Combo is best for around here? (Theyíll be tubeless btw).

I mainly ride RRT. On ďrest daysĒ I ride Sherman or sometimes Beatty.

I donít ride the mountains enough to feel like I need a Minion DH (and donít really want the weight). But Iíd still like
a fast rolling tire with grip that can handle the rough stuff when needed. 

A little help?
  
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OoHoO
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Re: (Yet Another) Tire Question
Reply #1 - 04/13/18 at 3:38am
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Butcher is one of my faves and has tons of grip, if you are looking to go maxxis and have more grip than a butcher your only choice is a minion DHF or another downhill tread. If you are saying butcher is washing out too much you would have to go to a very knobby tread. Orrrrr... I would replace due to tire being too worn or keep working on technique
  
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2014 Specialized Stumpjumper FSR 29 - Gone
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Re: (Yet Another) Tire Question
Reply #2 - 04/13/18 at 1:50pm
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OoHoO wrote on 04/13/18 at 3:38am:
if you are looking to go maxxis and have more grip than a butcher your only choice is a minion DHF or another downhill tread.


QFT
  
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Slothzilla
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Re: (Yet Another) Tire Question
Reply #3 - 04/13/18 at 1:50pm
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DHF/Aggressor works great for me in the mountains and in Charlotte. 2.5 3C Minion up front and a 2.3 Aggressor in the back. If you're only riding in Charlotte I wouldn't recommend the 2.5...2.3 is plenty. Sure there are lighter setups but the bite I get from this combination is pretty great and it would be the most similar to what you're coming from in Maxxis' offering. I know, I know, some people love them but Ardent's in any size make me cry... I've been burned twice now in 2.25 and 2.4 and I don't really know what they're good at other than going straight. Other options from Maxxis that I like are the High Roller II and the Minion SS.  HR2 is a good all-rounder and the SS is a super fast (Summer) tire that still gets you impressive cornering traction with the meaty shoulder knobs.
  
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Re: (Yet Another) Tire Question
Reply #4 - 04/13/18 at 2:13pm
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I recently switched from a 2.3 Butcher F / 2.3 Purgatory R combo (control casing) to a 2.3 Minion DHF F / 2.3 Aggressor R. 

I find the grip to be very similar between the Butcher and Minion DHF, but the DHF definitely has a slight edge. The DHF is obviously heavier (3C MaxxTerra) than the Butcher but the sidewalls have better support and abrasion resistance than the Control casing of the Butcher. I switched back and forth a few times between the two, but ultimately settled on the DHF because the Butcher had too much squirm in hard cornering forcing me to increase pressure and sacrifice suppleness to get good support. This was most obvious when doing the big high speed berms at Beech Mtn last year. Of course, I was running comically narrow rims at the time, so that may have been a contributing factor. 

I was fine with the Purgatory in the rear but it did start to slip more on climbs as it wore down. I like the Aggressor so far, but only have about 7-10 rides on it so cannot give much input. Excellent grip, rolling resistance is just OK, but I am used to running SS tires (Schwalbe Rock Razor) in the summer, so my benchmark for low rolling resistance is about as high (low?) as it can get. Only complaint about the Aggressor so far is it's poor mud clearing ability. It packs up and stays packed until you hit high speed, making an already heavy tire that much heavier. 

I will always go for grip over low weight/rolling resistance for a front tire, so I plan on running the DHF year round up front. 

I will switch back to a SS in the rear for Charlotte summer riding once the trails dry out for good. I'll probably only run the Aggressor for big mountain days (Pisgah, Beech, etc.) Still searching for the ideal wet weather (winter) tire for the rear. Need good knobby grip, that clears mud well. The best I have used so far in that category is a Nobby Nic or maybe a High Roller II. Anyone use the new Schwalbe Addix compounds, care to comment on their durability?

I have never really cared for the Ardent. Not enough grip for a front tire. As a rear I feel like a semi-slick has less rolling resistance AND better cornering grip. 

I have used the High Roller II as a rear tire before and it was pretty decent. Rolling resistance wasn't great. Grip was excellent, especially under braking, and it does clear mud pretty well. 

« Last Edit: 04/13/18 at 2:22pm by BudLeach »  
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Re: (Yet Another) Tire Question
Reply #5 - 04/13/18 at 3:23pm
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My rim width is pretty narrow (19mm, I think). Would a 2.5 minion be too wide (currently running a 2.3 in the butcher). The minion isnt designated WT, but would I have problems with that width on a narrow rim?
  
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Re: (Yet Another) Tire Question
Reply #6 - 04/13/18 at 3:27pm
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Specialist wrote on 04/13/18 at 3:23pm:
My rim width is pretty narrow (19mm, I think). Would a 2.5 minion be too wide (currently running a 2.3 in the butcher). The minion isnt designated WT, but would I have problems with that width on a narrow rim?

Stick with 2.3 on a 19mm rim.  My 2.5 is on 29mm 
  
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Re: (Yet Another) Tire Question
Reply #7 - 04/13/18 at 4:11pm
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Sorry, I mixed that up - my rim is 29 mm not 19. 

So, so far I'm hearing Maxxis Minion DHF 29x2.3 in Front and Aggressor 2.3 in rear. Does that sound right for the type of riding I do around here (with rare trips to mountains?) 

Thanks.
  
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Re: (Yet Another) Tire Question
Reply #8 - 04/13/18 at 5:39pm
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Specialist wrote on 04/13/18 at 4:11pm:
Sorry, I mixed that up - my rim is 29 mm not 19. 

So, so far I'm hearing Maxxis Minion DHF 29x2.3 in Front and Aggressor 2.3 in rear. Does that sound right for the type of riding I do around here (with rare trips to mountains?) 

Thanks.

You'd be totally fine with the 2.3 in the front. That said, the 2.5 WT is great for a 29mm rim and will net you a little different tire profile and some extra volume for a bit lower pressures - tubless FTW! - and will cost you less than 100 grams (not sure what size wheel you're rolling on). I'd go for it but I'm riding more mountains than local recently and weight takes a backseat to traction and FUN for me.   
  
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Re: (Yet Another) Tire Question
Reply #9 - 04/16/18 at 12:07pm
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I see A LOT of people go way too aggressive on their tire choice around here.† It's honestly not needed in the CLT area.† An XC tire in your brand of choice is going to be way more efficient then the AM/DH/Enduro tires I see a lot of people around here with.† If you think you "need" a gnarly knobby for RRT, Sherman, etc by all means there are some super grippy tires available.† It's just overkill in my opinion when you are the motor trying to turn over the heavy Enduro tires... lol
« Last Edit: 04/16/18 at 12:08pm by flynbryan19 »  
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Re: (Yet Another) Tire Question
Reply #10 - 04/16/18 at 12:49pm
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flynbryan19 wrote on 04/16/18 at 12:07pm:
It's just overkill in my opinion when you are the motor trying to turn over the heavy Enduro tires... lol


Of course it's overkill when you're "motoring" up a climb. It's definitely not overkill when you're bombing back down the hill though. 

As with everything, it is a tradeoff. It just depends on what you value more. Ride what makes you happy and don't judge others for doing the same.
  
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Re: (Yet Another) Tire Question
Reply #11 - 04/16/18 at 3:10pm
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BudLeach wrote on 04/16/18 at 12:49pm:


Of course it's overkill when you're "motoring" up a climb. It's definitely not overkill when you're bombing back down the hill though. 

As with everything, it is a tradeoff. It just depends on what you value more. Ride what makes you happy and don't judge others for doing the same.


I don't believe there was any "judgement" in my post?  Just pointing out that the CLT area trails the OP referenced do not necessitate such an aggressive tire.  XC tires are capable of trail sections that go down in elevation as well as up.  The OP requested the general public's opinion and I gave mine.  Sorry if you took it as judgmental. Wink
  
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Re: (Yet Another) Tire Question
Reply #12 - 04/16/18 at 4:00pm
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It's interesting how the tire debate mirrors exactly the "what kind of bike" question with Charlotte being 95% of what most asking ride with occasional trips to the mountains.   

I am on 2.4 Ardent's front and back right now. Thinking about giving 2.3 Minions a try.  Or, does a 2.3 aggressor roll about as well as a Minion?  Realistically, I would probably take about 8-10 trips to the mountains between now and October (Pisgah, Knoxville, Greenville).
  
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Re: (Yet Another) Tire Question
Reply #13 - 04/16/18 at 4:10pm
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Thanks for all the responses. I appreciate the need for "balance" between aggressive/enduro-type setups and lighter, more nimble XC setups around this area. Because the truth is, we have a nice hybrid of trails here. And yeah, I struggled with this with bikes when deciding between a Stumpjumper (140mm) and a Camber (120mm). Some said the Stumpy was a bit too much for around here, but the Camber is a bit light if you want to go somewhere in the mountains. It made me want a 130mm fork. 

I'll honestly stay on my current setup a little longer - maybe see if I can get them through the summer. I found running a slightly lower pressure (22 down to 20/19) and increasing the sag on the fork alleviated some of the issues at BYT this weekend. When I do need new ones, I'm going with the 2.3 Minion up front because the 2.5 doesn't seem worth it around here (but the person who posted about this even said he rides more in the mountains, so for him it makes sense and he admitted around here 2.3 would be more than enough). 

Anyway, I value all feedback - thanks.  Wink
  
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Re: (Yet Another) Tire Question
Reply #14 - 04/18/18 at 12:32pm
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Just for fun Ill throw in another combo. Smiley

I run purgatory front and ground control rear on my stumpy and mainly ride it in the mtns and byt/rrt for local. Ive found that the purgatory (for me) is a much better front than rear, as i have not liked it on the back. On my hardtail (local bike) i run ground control front and rear, and this has been a great combo at all other trails around here.

All others mentioned here are great as well, and I've run a ton of Maxxis tires over the years, and will probably throw a minion/high roller on the enduro, but been quite a fan of the specialized tires for the past 3 years or so.
  
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Re: (Yet Another) Tire Question
Reply #15 - 04/18/18 at 2:54pm
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Sorry but highroller and rear bricking traction lol itís the skiddiest tire on earth. I had been ruining local trails for years with my skidzzz until I switched to the dhr2 that actually brakes

Sorry I love skidding 


BudLeach wrote on 04/13/18 at 2:13pm:
I recently switched from a 2.3 Butcher F / 2.3 Purgatory R combo (control casing) to a 2.3 Minion DHF F / 2.3 Aggressor R. 

I find the grip to be very similar between the Butcher and Minion DHF, but the DHF definitely has a slight edge. The DHF is obviously heavier (3C MaxxTerra) than the Butcher but the sidewalls have better support and abrasion resistance than the Control casing of the Butcher. I switched back and forth a few times between the two, but ultimately settled on the DHF because the Butcher had too much squirm in hard cornering forcing me to increase pressure and sacrifice suppleness to get good support. This was most obvious when doing the big high speed berms at Beech Mtn last year. Of course, I was running comically narrow rims at the time, so that may have been a contributing factor. 

I was fine with the Purgatory in the rear but it did start to slip more on climbs as it wore down. I like the Aggressor so far, but only have about 7-10 rides on it so cannot give much input. Excellent grip, rolling resistance is just OK, but I am used to running SS tires (Schwalbe Rock Razor) in the summer, so my benchmark for low rolling resistance is about as high (low?) as it can get. Only complaint about the Aggressor so far is it's poor mud clearing ability. It packs up and stays packed until you hit high speed, making an already heavy tire that much heavier. 

I will always go for grip over low weight/rolling resistance for a front tire, so I plan on running the DHF year round up front. 

I will switch back to a SS in the rear for Charlotte summer riding once the trails dry out for good. I'll probably only run the Aggressor for big mountain days (Pisgah, Beech, etc.) Still searching for the ideal wet weather (winter) tire for the rear. Need good knobby grip, that clears mud well. The best I have used so far in that category is a Nobby Nic or maybe a High Roller II. Anyone use the new Schwalbe Addix compounds, care to comment on their durability?

I have never really cared for the Ardent. Not enough grip for a front tire. As a rear I feel like a semi-slick has less rolling resistance AND better cornering grip. 

I have used the High Roller II as a rear tire before and it was pretty decent. Rolling resistance wasn't great. Grip was excellent, especially under braking, and it does clear mud pretty well. 


  
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Re: (Yet Another) Tire Question
Reply #16 - 04/18/18 at 5:16pm
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Zakaraia Hermes wrote on 04/18/18 at 2:54pm:
Sorry but highroller and rear bricking traction lol itís the skiddiest tire on earth. I had been ruining local trails for years with my skidzzz until I switched to the dhr2 that actually brakes

Sorry I love skidding 





I guess it's all relative. I am used to running semi-slick tires throughout the dusty dry summer, so most anything has pretty good braking grip by comparison. I guess my braking technique has been re-calibrated to brake a little earlier and more lightly. I run Guide brakes which helps with modulation.

My comment was more about straight line braking performance, which I stand by. With proper technique the front wheel does the majority of the braking anyway.

I feel like where the HR2 was lacking most (for me) was when riding over roots, especially when wet. It was particularly bad in rooty turns or off-camber sections. The whole back end would slide out sideways without warning, and did not stop until it touched back down on dirt. 
  
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