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Electric Bikes and why I changed my mind... (Read 3282 times)

Banjopickin Big Ring Offline Spinnin' knees & Hittin' trees since '85 Posts: 1805 Location: Pisgah National Forest, USA Joined: 08/01/11	Electric Bikes and why I changed my mind... 07/04/18 at 5:19pm	Print Post
	Hey THTBS... Electric Bikes are popping up everywhere it seems, and there are some very strong opinions out there... both for and against. To be honest I was strongly opposed to them, especially eMTBs... I didnt want to share our trails with a dirtbike, and no one could convince me they were a good thing... Until two weeks ago... Here's how it went down... I was on a business trip to the PNW and was at Rocky Mtn HQ in North Vancouver. During the meeting Wade Simmons barged in and yelled at everyone to come out front. When Wade Simmons asks you to do something you do it haha... We got out there and here is a guy in his mid-50s talking to Wade and everyone seems impressed with him. Wade announces that this is Digger... The Digger... of the famous North Shore trail system that basically made modern Mountain Biking what is today. Think New World Disorder, Brett Tippie, 20ft ladder drops, skinnies 30 feet in the air, crazy freeride moves... all that. Digger had devoted most of the last 25 years or so to building trail and riding and he is a legend. Well, given his career on 20ft ladder drops, etc. he recently underwent double knee replacement. Dude can barely walk now... We're all standing around as Wade goes over Diggers accolades and then he reaches into a side office and pulls out a brand-spanking new Rocky Mtn. Altitude PowerPlay... Rocky's new eMTB... and hands it to Digger. Wade went on to thank Digger for the years of hardwork and dedication to riding, building, and being an awesome representative for the sport of Mountain Biking. As Digger was tearing up he thanked everyone and was overcome with emotion. He thought his double knee replacement meant he could never ride again, but with this eBike to help him up the climbs, he can once again ride the trails that he has put countless hours of blood, sweat, and tears into... Well my opinion of eBikes changed that very second... There is definitely a place for them in our sport and I say WELCOME!... Electric or Non-Electric we all are here to shred and have fun in the woods with our friends. Will I buy one? Not anytime soon I hope but if its between riding the couch for the rest of my life or riding an eBike..... Thats an easy call to make... Now go ride your bike... whatever it is....
	« Last Edit: 07/04/18 at 5:33pm by Banjopickin »
	(You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links) (Attachment deleted) Advocat wrote on 08/22/13 at 5:16pm: ...packin some Chub in the back of the pick-up. (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links)
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btalley Big Ring Offline aka "Lil Bill" or "Squatch" Posts: 1483 Location: Mooresville, NC Joined: 08/03/10	Re: Electric Bikes and why I changed my mind... Reply #1 - 07/04/18 at 5:32pm	Print Post
	You should post this here: (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links)

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ChosenOne Little Ring Offline Posts: 600 Joined: 11/02/08	Re: Electric Bikes and why I changed my mind... Reply #2 - 07/04/18 at 10:45pm	Print Post
	Banjopickin wrote on 07/04/18 at 5:19pm: Hey THTBS... Electric Bikes are popping up everywhere it seems, and there are some very strong opinions out there... both for and against. To be honest I was strongly opposed to them, especially eMTBs... I didnt want to share our trails with a dirtbike, and no one could convince me they were a good thing... Until two weeks ago... Here's how it went down... I was on a business trip to the PNW and was at Rocky Mtn HQ in North Vancouver. During the meeting Wade Simmons barged in and yelled at everyone to come out front. When Wade Simmons asks you to do something you do it haha... We got out there and here is a guy in his mid-50s talking to Wade and everyone seems impressed with him. Wade announces that this is Digger... The Digger... of the famous North Shore trail system that basically made modern Mountain Biking what is today. Think New World Disorder, Brett Tippie, 20ft ladder drops, skinnies 30 feet in the air, crazy freeride moves... all that. Digger had devoted most of the last 25 years or so to building trail and riding and he is a legend. Well, given his career on 20ft ladder drops, etc. he recently underwent double knee replacement. Dude can barely walk now... We're all standing around as Wade goes over Diggers accolades and then he reaches into a side office and pulls out a brand-spanking new Rocky Mtn. Altitude PowerPlay... Rocky's new eMTB... and hands it to Digger. Wade went on to thank Digger for the years of hardwork and dedication to riding, building, and being an awesome representative for the sport of Mountain Biking. As Digger was tearing up he thanked everyone and was overcome with emotion. He thought his double knee replacement meant he could never ride again, but with this eBike to help him up the climbs, he can once again ride the trails that he has put countless hours of blood, sweat, and tears into... Well my opinion of eBikes changed that very second... There is definitely a place for them in our sport and I say WELCOME!... Electric or Non-Electric we all are here to shred and have fun in the woods with our friends. Will I buy one? Not anytime soon I hope but if its between riding the couch for the rest of my life or riding an eBike..... Thats an easy call to make... Now go ride your bike... whatever it is.... It was bound to happen... welcome to the side of reason. I am a big fan of these machines... and will absolutely own one in the next phase of my life.

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renoirbud Small Cog Offline Newbie Posts: 442 Location: China Grove Joined: 12/12/06	Re: Electric Bikes and why I changed my mind... Reply #3 - 07/05/18 at 12:06am	Print Post
	I understand the OP's point of view. But here is another way of looking Ebikes in the US; (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links)

	(You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links) (Attachment deleted) E-Bikes = Trail Closures
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Enoch Forum Administrator IB Room Project Board In The Loop Offline Walked with God and he was not Posts: 8702 Joined: 05/08/04	Re: Electric Bikes and why I changed my mind... Reply #4 - 07/05/18 at 1:13am	Print Post
	Dave actually articulates it very well,,, Once it happens it will become open season. If I had one I would modify the crap out it and there is nothing anyone could do about it, because it is just another e bike
	« Last Edit: 07/05/18 at 2:04am by Enoch »
	(You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links) (Attachment deleted) Do what you like. Stop hating people for their riding habits and get back to hating them for their skin color, religion, politics, and sexual orientation.
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IntheBush Big Ring Offline Posts: 2031 Location: South of the border Joined: 10/30/09	Re: Electric Bikes and why I changed my mind... Reply #5 - 07/05/18 at 1:53am	Print Post
	Touching. There's a place for them and that's fine with me. I'm 57, and nobody special in the business. To me they're a moped. I've ridden with a guy here that's had both of his hips replaced. Last time I saw him, he wasn't riding an ebike.

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QueenCity Bicycles In The Loop Offline Fight for your right to Bike! Posts: 1524 Location: 128 E Park Ave SouthEnd Joined: 06/23/04	Re: Electric Bikes and why I changed my mind... Reply #6 - 07/05/18 at 3:59pm	Print Post
	Great story. Another North Shore story was one time me and Scotty Boy Chubbs were at Mt Seymour on the N.Shore and some dude stuck his head up outta nowwhere. He ended being the Jack Crouch of the North Shore and the founder of the NSMBA. He was just like Jack in practically every way.

	(You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links) (Attachment deleted) Bart Stetler QueenCity Bicycles 128 E Park Ave Suite A Clt NC 28203 704-522-7006 [email protected] (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links)
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Cherokee Little Ring Offline Posts: 748 Location: Concord Joined: 08/07/06	Re: Electric Bikes and why I changed my mind... Reply #7 - 07/05/18 at 7:10pm	Print Post
	I'm sensitive to those who are unable to pedal a bike due to injury or age and their desire to enjoy the outdoors on a bike. I do think there's a place for e-bikes among this group. But I'd wager that within 5 years of e-bikes becoming mainstream, the vast majority of people using them will be Joe Sixpack and his kids who just want to fly around the trails without the effort of pedaling or developing the skill. And as fast as possible. This sort of rider will have no respect for the trails or of those who are out there under their own power. We who choose to pedal will be run off of the trails and where will we go then? And as Dave Turner alluded, please don't tell me about how you have to pedal and it only assists, or how low power they are. I remember when 4-wheelers were 175 to 200cc's. Now if you don't have 700cc's you're not in the game. The same will happen with e-bikes very quickly. Most of the people on this forum would not bother me at all if they want or need an e-bike on the trails. But they will soon be a very small minority of users. There are plenty of trails for power driven machines...let the e-bikers ride there all they want. But let there continue to be a refuge for those of us who prefer to pedal and sweat and use our bikes to better our health and fitness.

	(You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links) (Attachment deleted) "The state is the great fiction by which each of us seeks to live at the expense of all of us." --19th century French economist Frederic Bastiat
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Cherokee Little Ring Offline Posts: 748 Location: Concord Joined: 08/07/06	Re: Electric Bikes and why I changed my mind... Reply #8 - 07/05/18 at 7:12pm	Print Post
	IntheBush wrote on 07/05/18 at 1:53am: Touching. There's a place for them and that's fine with me. I'm 57, and nobody special in the business. To me they're a moped. I've ridden with a guy here that's had both of his hips replaced. Last time I saw him, he wasn't riding an ebike. And for several years on this forum we had a biker with an artificial leg. He may still be around; I just haven't heard from him in a while.

	(You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links) (Attachment deleted) "The state is the great fiction by which each of us seeks to live at the expense of all of us." --19th century French economist Frederic Bastiat
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DirtDan Coaster Bike Offline Work Ride Tarheel Trailblazers Posts: 95 Location: Charlotte Joined: 07/23/13	Re: Electric Bikes and why I changed my mind... Reply #9 - 07/05/18 at 8:04pm	Print Post
	If this doesn't inspire you to pedal using your own power, I don't know what will. Granted, he has one good knee, hip and arm, but who is counting (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links) On a similar note; There are hand bikes made for mtb'ing. So there are non-ebike alternatives for people who've worn out their knees or have other limitations that makes traditional biking impossible, painful, or not so fun. I volunteer occasionally for the Speedway Time Trials, and it's incredibly inspiring to see guys who lost both legs or have other leg disabilities blasting around the track using arm power instead.

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FMWilly Coaster Bike Offline Work Ride Tarheel Trailblazers Posts: 64 Location: Fort Mill, SC Joined: 11/28/16	Re: Electric Bikes and why I changed my mind... Reply #10 - 07/05/18 at 8:20pm	Print Post
	I know lots of people on this forum dont like ebikes for one reason or another but I am not sure they are catching on that much here is the US. I have only seen one ebike at the US Whitewater center and I ride there on a regular basis. Never seen one anywhere else. Two things going against them- price and weight. For the same price you can get a great high end mountain bike that is about 15-18 pounds lighter. Its not a good 1st or only bike because you cant take them on most trails. Demographics-most people who would buy them are the 50+ crowd which is a smaller demographic than the market overall. Get out there and help build trails!!!!

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Impaler 58 Big Ring Offline Posts: 2111 Location: Statesville Joined: 01/21/09	Re: Electric Bikes and why I changed my mind... Reply #11 - 07/09/18 at 4:50pm	Print Post
	After riding a couple of e-bikes, I find that they are too heavy. And they run out of power before you reach your destination. I can see pedal assist if you really need it. But come on, why wouldn't you get it for the extra power. Lately on the trail, I have had the racer types ride up behind me, and not say anything until they are right on your wheel. I would love to have an e-bike then, and switch it to turbo mode. Now that would be a whole lot of fun

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MTB4U Coaster Bike Offline AKA: MTBSurfer Posts: 169 Location: Matthews Joined: 02/24/18	Re: Electric Bikes and why I changed my mind... Reply #12 - 07/09/18 at 7:22pm	Print Post
	We have lots of eBikes all over the place here at the beach. I currently live in Newport Beach, Ca. but I'm moving out to Matthews in mid August. (Planning to join your awesome club as soon as I'm relocated.) I would say that 25% of the bikes on the beach paths are electric. I personally have been riding a street eBike to work for over 2 years and I love it for that. Don't want to get sweaty peddling a traditional bike to work in dress clothes. HOWEVER, unless I had some sort of health issue like Douglas's friend, I would never want to ride an eBike on a MTB trail for myself. I wouldn't resent someone for having one, though.
	« Last Edit: 07/09/18 at 9:34pm by MTB4U »
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SurlyDave Small Cog Offline Work Ride Tarheel Trailblazers Posts: 326 Location: Indian Trail Joined: 09/03/12	Re: Electric Bikes and why I changed my mind... Reply #13 - 07/11/18 at 12:22am	Print Post
	Saw a middle aged guy with no apparent disability on one at Sherman recently. On the same ride saw a father with his 4 year old complete the main loop on a balance Strider bike so there is that. Overheard some young men in the parking lot at RRT talking about how fun they were on a recent demo and he was thinking about buying one. I don't get it. To me its a motorized vehicle and its a slippery slope to say it's a mountain bike. Battery and motor tech is advancing rapidly so the weight and cost factors are coming down. That tech advancing is good for the progress of man kind but I would argue it is not progressing MTBing-unless you are in the business of selling bikes and want to tap into that market.

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btalley Big Ring Offline aka "Lil Bill" or "Squatch" Posts: 1483 Location: Mooresville, NC Joined: 08/03/10	Re: Electric Bikes and why I changed my mind... Reply #14 - 07/11/18 at 3:37am	Print Post
	I passed a moped today in my truck

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IntheBush Big Ring Offline Posts: 2031 Location: South of the border Joined: 10/30/09	Re: Electric Bikes and why I changed my mind... Reply #15 - 07/11/18 at 11:45am	Print Post
	SurlyDave wrote on 07/11/18 at 12:22am: Battery and motor tech is advancing rapidly so the weight and cost factors are coming down. That tech advancing is good for the progress of man kind but I would argue it is not progressing MTBing-unless you are in the business of selling bikes and want to tap into that market. As Gary Fisher insinuated, it's about 'inclusion'. (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links) The fact is that a lot of people don’t ride mountain bikes because getting themselves and the bikes up and over some hills and other obstacles is just too difficult. Translation; it's about getting the maximum number of aszes in the maximum number of bike seats. As an economic theory I think this is called 'growth'. Similar to I-77. Geez, is nothing sacred anymore? Now they want motors on mountain bikes? What's next? Seat belts, air bags and trail enforcement?
	« Last Edit: 07/11/18 at 12:41pm by IntheBush »
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JasonK Ex Member	Re: Electric Bikes and why I changed my mind... Reply #16 - 07/11/18 at 12:46pm	Print Post
	SurlyDave wrote on 07/11/18 at 12:22am: I would argue it is not progressing MTBing-unless you are in the business of selling bikes and want to tap into that market. I think this has a lot to do with it. But I am only referring to most of us who are able bodied and capable of riding a real bike. I am personally ok with eBikes being used by those who couldn't otherwise ride.

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IntheBush Big Ring Offline Posts: 2031 Location: South of the border Joined: 10/30/09	Re: Electric Bikes and why I changed my mind... Reply #17 - 07/12/18 at 1:42am	Print Post
	The ownership of an ebike doesn't mean somebody can ride. And the last time I checked, anybody can buy one. I think it also can mean that somebody that lacks the other skills to ride suddenly has the legs/cardio of Lance Armstrong. Not hard to see the problems with that. In my view riding a mountain with leg power only is a somewhat self limited factor. Meaning simply leg strength and cardio or lack of, kinda matches the other skills they possess. Or not. I must say. It's very annoying to me to be hammering down a tight section of single track and cross paths with someone that is traveling too fast for conditions/their ability.
	« Last Edit: 07/12/18 at 12:21pm by IntheBush »
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Doc00t IB Room In The Loop Project Board Offline When in DOUBT, PEDAL it OUT Posts: 1785 Location: University Joined: 05/09/12	Re: Electric Bikes and why I changed my mind... Reply #18 - 07/12/18 at 3:25pm	Print Post
	ATV's and Motorcycles are certainly not allowed on the trails but that does not stop them from ridding them. THTB don't own any of the land where trails exist. THTB just build and maintain on land that they have been given permission to use. Its the Land Owners that get to make the call on what is allowed and what is not and its is them that has the authority to enforce that. I guess it does make for good internet banter though so... Enjoy

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renoirbud Small Cog Offline Newbie Posts: 442 Location: China Grove Joined: 12/12/06	Re: Electric Bikes and why I changed my mind... Reply #19 - 07/13/18 at 6:50pm	Print Post
	IntheBush wrote on 07/12/18 at 1:42am: In my view riding a mountain with leg power only is a somewhat self limited factor. Meaning simply leg strength and cardio or lack of, kinda matches the other skills they possess. Or not. I think this is a key point, good trail design puts more advanced features in places that the appropriate riders will find them. Rocky Knob is a great example of this, as is Bootleg Canyon. Adding E-Legs to the equation is going to be good for the Ambulance industry.

	(You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links) (Attachment deleted) E-Bikes = Trail Closures
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